I bought Streets & Trips 2009 the other day with the Pharos unit. I noticed upon stopping at a light or a stop sign it doesn't ever read as 0mph for my speed. It fluxes from 3-4mph repeatedly. Also I noticed the problem you had mentioned about the accuracy... so i turned on the GPS trail to better see the actual driving path. I pulled into a parking lot and sat for 15 mins and watched it. The trail it was showing made it seem as if I was making about 10 attempts at parking. There were lines circling and zigzagging all around the area I was actually in. My sensor is on my dash (using the suction cup) dead center. Any idea if there is a known reason for this... or is this something we must deal with... or is there a calibration fix?
Edit: This issue has been corrected in the new 2010 version of Microsoft Streets and Trips.
Edit: This issue has been corrected in the new 2010 version of Microsoft Streets and Trips.
It could be that the windshield of your vehicle is metalized. This will reduce the ability of signals to reach the GPS receiver. If you can, try placing the GPS near a side window.
The number of satellites the GPS is seeing is shown in the bottom left corner of S&T and on the GPS Sensor pane. If it is not going over 3 or 4, you will have accuracy issues.
Terry
The number of satellites the GPS is seeing is shown in the bottom left corner of S&T and on the GPS Sensor pane. If it is not going over 3 or 4, you will have accuracy issues.
Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
It could be that the windshield of your vehicle is metalized. This will reduce the ability of signals to reach the GPS receiver. If you can, try placing the GPS near a side window.
The number of satellites the GPS is seeing is shown in the bottom left corner of S&T and on the GPS Sensor pane. If it is not going over 3 or 4, you will have accuracy issues.
Terry
The number of satellites the GPS is seeing is shown in the bottom left corner of S&T and on the GPS Sensor pane. If it is not going over 3 or 4, you will have accuracy issues.
Terry
I, too, noticed the speedometer in Streets and Trips 2009 not sitting at zero when sitting at a parking lot. This is a change from previous Streets & Trips versions. You see 8 to 10 satellites, that is good enough. The issue is something else in this case.
I suspect Microsoft did some change in v.2009 that has resulted in S&T reporting to users exactly what the GPS receiver reports to S&T. But that's not desirable in case of road navigation.
GPS receivers often report incorrect data due to GPS signals being reflected by buildings, trees, or there may be other reasons for inaccuracy. Some road navigation software programs filter speeds below certain kmh or mph, and I suspect this is what earlier S&T versions might have done, too. Such filtering eliminates seeing any movement on the map while we are sitting on the parking lot (even while our GPS receiver erroneously reports to S&T that our car is jumping left and right ).
If S&T (or other software) doesn't filter the slow speeds, and if it bothers us, we can very likely change the default settings of our GPS receivers. There are some utility software programs (SiRF Demo comes to mind) that let users enable/disable "Static Navigation". We need to enable static navigation.
This may solve the problem for the few people who read this, but the problem remains for all the other thousands of users who will never stumble upon this thread.
I suspect Microsoft did some change in v.2009 that has resulted in S&T reporting to users exactly what the GPS receiver reports to S&T. But that's not desirable in case of road navigation.
GPS receivers often report incorrect data due to GPS signals being reflected by buildings, trees, or there may be other reasons for inaccuracy. Some road navigation software programs filter speeds below certain kmh or mph, and I suspect this is what earlier S&T versions might have done, too. Such filtering eliminates seeing any movement on the map while we are sitting on the parking lot (even while our GPS receiver erroneously reports to S&T that our car is jumping left and right ).
If S&T (or other software) doesn't filter the slow speeds, and if it bothers us, we can very likely change the default settings of our GPS receivers. There are some utility software programs (SiRF Demo comes to mind) that let users enable/disable "Static Navigation". We need to enable static navigation.
This may solve the problem for the few people who read this, but the problem remains for all the other thousands of users who will never stumble upon this thread.
Thanks I appreciate the details!
So this SiRF Demo... any idea where I can find it? The site that says they have it has a bad link.
So this SiRF Demo... any idea where I can find it? The site that says they have it has a bad link.
Marvin,
I am not in a location where reflections should be an issue but see this even when sitting at my desk with any program that can show a track. I think it is a sensitivity issue. Unfortunately, S&T does not give satellite relative strengh information, just numbers.
Terry
I am not in a location where reflections should be an issue but see this even when sitting at my desk with any program that can show a track. I think it is a sensitivity issue. Unfortunately, S&T does not give satellite relative strengh information, just numbers.
Terry
I cannot locate SiRF Demo, either. It used to be posted at http://www.sirf.com/
My guess is that SiRF stopped making the application available to the public, because if used improperly, it could damage the GPS receiver.
Later tonight, or tomorrow, I'll try to search the web for a similar utility application capable of turning SN (Static Navigation) on/off. By the way, I think this is only possible with GPS receivers based on a SiRF chip.
My guess is that SiRF stopped making the application available to the public, because if used improperly, it could damage the GPS receiver.
Later tonight, or tomorrow, I'll try to search the web for a similar utility application capable of turning SN (Static Navigation) on/off. By the way, I think this is only possible with GPS receivers based on a SiRF chip.
1. My above statement that 2009 version somehow treats speed differently than earlier S&T versions may be completely incorrect. That was only my first impression upon seeing speed reading of 6 kmh while not in motion the other day, but I have to admit that I very seldom (almost never) pay any attention to the speed reading in GPS Task pane. I normally use S&T in full-screen mode, and thus I have no access to speed. I use the vehicle's own speedometer (as strange as this may sound ).
2. Terry is correct in saying that this incorrect speed issue is in many (most) cases a sensitivity issue. When a GPS receiver has access to stronger satellite signals, its accuracy is considerably better.
If anyone wishes to experiment with enabling SN (Static Navigation) in their SiRF based GPS receiver, here's how:
SiRF Demo application, when used improperly, may render your GPS receiver unusable. Use it at your own risk. Hundreds of people have killed their GPS units with SiRF Demo in the past, and hundreds of people will still kill their perfectly functional GPS receivers in the future.
Some people will ruin their good GPS after reading this thread, and experimenting with various features of SiRF Demo.
I only describe steps needed to enable SN. If you wish to do anything else with the program, read the user manual before you click your mouse on anything.
To enable SN
1. Download and install SiRF Demo: http://www.falcom.de/support/software-tools/sirf/
2. When you start SiRF Demo, you may be prompted to enter serial port and baud rate. Make the proper selection, and then click OK
3. If you were not prompted to enter port and baud rate, click Setup => Data Source, to access the dialog box
4. Click Action => Open Data Source
5. Click Action => Switch to SiRF Protocol
6. Click Navigation => Static Navigation => Enable (or Disable) => Send
7. Click Action => Switch to NMEA Protocol
8. Make sure the baud rate is set to the correct value for your GPS receiver, and then click Send
You are done.
Proceed at your own risk.
2. Terry is correct in saying that this incorrect speed issue is in many (most) cases a sensitivity issue. When a GPS receiver has access to stronger satellite signals, its accuracy is considerably better.
If anyone wishes to experiment with enabling SN (Static Navigation) in their SiRF based GPS receiver, here's how:
SiRF Demo application, when used improperly, may render your GPS receiver unusable. Use it at your own risk. Hundreds of people have killed their GPS units with SiRF Demo in the past, and hundreds of people will still kill their perfectly functional GPS receivers in the future.
Some people will ruin their good GPS after reading this thread, and experimenting with various features of SiRF Demo.
I only describe steps needed to enable SN. If you wish to do anything else with the program, read the user manual before you click your mouse on anything.
To enable SN
1. Download and install SiRF Demo: http://www.falcom.de/support/software-tools/sirf/
2. When you start SiRF Demo, you may be prompted to enter serial port and baud rate. Make the proper selection, and then click OK
3. If you were not prompted to enter port and baud rate, click Setup => Data Source, to access the dialog box
4. Click Action => Open Data Source
5. Click Action => Switch to SiRF Protocol
6. Click Navigation => Static Navigation => Enable (or Disable) => Send
7. Click Action => Switch to NMEA Protocol
8. Make sure the baud rate is set to the correct value for your GPS receiver, and then click Send
You are done.
Proceed at your own risk.
hmmm... sounds a little scary...
Yes, and there actually is no need to do it, because it will make no difference at all. All of what I wrote above was written on my home computer (not on the road). Now I'm on the road, doing some testing, and I see that this is clearly an issue of Streets & Trips 2009 and MapPoint 2009 (I'm testing w/MP09).
This issue is very easy to reproduce:
1. Enable GPS in the program, and start driving. Observe speed reading in GPS Task pane.
2. Bring your vehicle to stop. Observe that the speed reading in GPS Task pane will never go down to zero. Instead of zero, it will stop at some small number, such as 4, or 6 (may be different if the program is set to miles instead of kilometers).
3. Close GPS Task pane to view GPS Sensor. The speed reported by GPS Sensor will be zero.
4. Open GPS Task pane again. The speed shown in GPS Task pane is still not zero.
In 2008 (and earlier) version of Streets & Trips, the speed does go down to zero in GPS Task pane.
This issue is very easy to reproduce:
1. Enable GPS in the program, and start driving. Observe speed reading in GPS Task pane.
2. Bring your vehicle to stop. Observe that the speed reading in GPS Task pane will never go down to zero. Instead of zero, it will stop at some small number, such as 4, or 6 (may be different if the program is set to miles instead of kilometers).
3. Close GPS Task pane to view GPS Sensor. The speed reported by GPS Sensor will be zero.
4. Open GPS Task pane again. The speed shown in GPS Task pane is still not zero.
In 2008 (and earlier) version of Streets & Trips, the speed does go down to zero in GPS Task pane.
Quote:
The speed shown in GPS Task pane is still not zero.
In 2008 (and earlier) version of Streets & Trips, the speed does go down to zero in GPS Task pane.
In 2008 (and earlier) version of Streets & Trips, the speed does go down to zero in GPS Task pane.
Thanks for taking the time to explore this problem. I know it's almost a trivial thing, but of course as a consumer (and now an enthusiast) we'd like to see the software doing the job it claims to do.
There's a free utility called VisualGPS
http://www.visualgps.net/VisualGPS/default.htm
that will plot your location over time. You'll see that even when parked, your location will wander around because the atmosphere affects the GPS signals. My handheld Magellan GPS sitting in the windowsill says my house is currently moving northwest at 2mph. I'm hoping it moves into a nicer neighborhood.:rofl"
http://www.visualgps.net/VisualGPS/default.htm
that will plot your location over time. You'll see that even when parked, your location will wander around because the atmosphere affects the GPS signals. My handheld Magellan GPS sitting in the windowsill says my house is currently moving northwest at 2mph. I'm hoping it moves into a nicer neighborhood.:rofl"
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcflyer
There's a free utility called VisualGPS
http://www.visualgps.net/VisualGPS/default.htm
that will plot your location over time. You'll see that even when parked, your location will wander around because the atmosphere affects the GPS signals. My handheld Magellan GPS sitting in the windowsill says my house is currently moving northwest at 2mph.
http://www.visualgps.net/VisualGPS/default.htm
that will plot your location over time. You'll see that even when parked, your location will wander around because the atmosphere affects the GPS signals. My handheld Magellan GPS sitting in the windowsill says my house is currently moving northwest at 2mph.
Quote:
I'm hoping it moves into a nicer neighborhood.:rofl"
It would be great if Microsoft jumped on this and patched it. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who can see this issue. Like I said it's kinda trivial... but then again it's not right. Hopefully there's an update soon.
I read this thread and was aware of this problem before I installed the trial version of s&t 2k9.
For me, the speed always reports 3mph while I am stopped.
We have to tell microsoft to fix this thing.
For me, the speed always reports 3mph while I am stopped.
We have to tell microsoft to fix this thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanitor
I read this thread and was aware of this problem before I installed the trial version of s&t 2k9.
For me, the speed always reports 3mph while I am stopped.
We have to tell microsoft to fix this thing.
For me, the speed always reports 3mph while I am stopped.
We have to tell microsoft to fix this thing.
The question is... Will they release a patch to fix it?
Or, will someone on this forum find a fix for it.
Or, will someone on this forum find a fix for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanitor
The question is... Will they release a patch to fix it?
Or, will someone on this forum find a fix for it.
Or, will someone on this forum find a fix for it.
...ken...
Yes, unlikely this is something users can fix themselves. MSFT will have to correct it, and I don't recall Microsoft releasing any downloadable fixes for Streets & Trips in the past, so most likely, to see this fixed, we will need to wait till Streets and Trips 2010. Luckily this is just a minor visual distraction (at least for me), nothing too urgent.
Then I suppose we are screwed blued and tattooed.
Maybe we should form a union where each member here calls microsoft complaining about this problem until they move their butts and fix it.
Or maybe someone here knows someone important who works for microsoft who might have the power to fix this.
Maybe we should form a union where each member here calls microsoft complaining about this problem until they move their butts and fix it.
Or maybe someone here knows someone important who works for microsoft who might have the power to fix this.
The last few posts on this subject are nearly a year old but I have encountered this issue at work recently. I looked on Microsoft's technical support site and find no reference. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks
Thanks
Hi Wsmith,
:welcome: to Laptop GPS World.
This issue has been corrected in the new version of Microsoft Streets and Trips 2010.
:welcome: to Laptop GPS World.
This issue has been corrected in the new version of Microsoft Streets and Trips 2010.
Since installing S&T 2009 in my netbook, I've noticed the same thing. When parked, it never goes below 4 kph.
As these post are quite old, I was wondering if MicroSoft ever came up with a fix.
I'm heading out to Victoria next week end, that will give the new computer and S&T '09 a good test. I think I will install my old S&T 2007 as well as a backup in case '09 gives me problems.
Al
As these post are quite old, I was wondering if MicroSoft ever came up with a fix.
I'm heading out to Victoria next week end, that will give the new computer and S&T '09 a good test. I think I will install my old S&T 2007 as well as a backup in case '09 gives me problems.
Al
Apparently, that was fixed in 2010. Download the trial version and see if you like it.
Terry
Terry
As Terry said, download the trial version of 2010. It's free and it's good for 60 days before you have to make up your mind about buying it.
...ken...
...ken...
Here's a quote from version 2010 review:
Check out the latest review of Microsoft Streets and Trips
Quote:
Fixed: 0 mph / 0 kph
I'm sure there must have been many other "bugs" and "oversights" fixed in the new Microsoft Streets & Trips 2010, but here's at least one that I've spotted. In the previous version, the speedometer sometimes would no go down to 0 (zero) when we stopped, but instead it would show 3 or 4 miles per hour (or corresponding number in kilometers). This has been corrected in version 2010.
I'm sure there must have been many other "bugs" and "oversights" fixed in the new Microsoft Streets & Trips 2010, but here's at least one that I've spotted. In the previous version, the speedometer sometimes would no go down to 0 (zero) when we stopped, but instead it would show 3 or 4 miles per hour (or corresponding number in kilometers). This has been corrected in version 2010.
Why do we have to upgrade to a new version to fix this problem? Why can't Microsoft just put out a fix? I don't want to have to pay for a new version just to get this fixed.
If that's the only thing in 2010 that interests you, don't bother upgrading until a version comes along that does.
Let me first make it very clear that as a hardcore techy bugs like this really bug me, a lot, from a purely technical perspective.
But there is no practical consequence from this particular bug. I don't know about you but I can usually tell when my car is stopped without help from the nav computer.
...ken...
Let me first make it very clear that as a hardcore techy bugs like this really bug me, a lot, from a purely technical perspective.
But there is no practical consequence from this particular bug. I don't know about you but I can usually tell when my car is stopped without help from the nav computer.
...ken...
You make a lot of sense but I am addicted to this software and so I'll buy it regardless of what the new version has.
I don't even know why I complained about this in the first place. Sorry.
I don't even know why I complained about this in the first place. Sorry.
Ken said:
I can say that sometimes you have some very funny answers. This also makes this forum interesting to be read
Quote:
But there is no practical consequence from this particular bug. I don't know about you but I can usually tell when my car is stopped without help from the nav computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanitor
I am addicted to this software and so I'll buy it regardless of what the new version has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMoonlight
Ken, I can say that sometimes you have some very funny answers. This also makes this forum interesting to be read
I just purchased Streets & Trips 2009 w/GPS (because 2010 w/GPS is not available) and also noticed this bug! It's a shame I didn't find this forum first, I would have just purchased the 2010 software and got the GPS separately!
But, being as I didn't know and blindly purchased a flawed program (when it's apparent MS knew about the bug and fixed the new version), I really don't feel compelled to spend an additional $40.00 a week after spending $70.00 on what I thought was the newest version, just to fix a known bug.
If MS really cared about their customer base, they would issue a patch for all the 2009 version owners... Just my thoughts, but then again, I'm new and not yet addicted!
But, being as I didn't know and blindly purchased a flawed program (when it's apparent MS knew about the bug and fixed the new version), I really don't feel compelled to spend an additional $40.00 a week after spending $70.00 on what I thought was the newest version, just to fix a known bug.
If MS really cared about their customer base, they would issue a patch for all the 2009 version owners... Just my thoughts, but then again, I'm new and not yet addicted!
Hi Gotta_P,
:welcome: to Laptop GPS World.
Sorry to hear you just bought the old version. The new version, even with the GPS receiver, is already available. Usually you can find at least one link to a place that sells it at the bottom of our reviews (check the bottom of the first post of the review: Microsoft Streets and Trips).
The above mentioned bug is likely not going to be an issue (perhaps just a little visual annoyance). But the new 2010 version has some interesting feature improvements, so you may want to ask your retailer if they would exchange your just purchased S&T2009GPS for the current version.
:welcome: to Laptop GPS World.
Sorry to hear you just bought the old version. The new version, even with the GPS receiver, is already available. Usually you can find at least one link to a place that sells it at the bottom of our reviews (check the bottom of the first post of the review: Microsoft Streets and Trips).
The above mentioned bug is likely not going to be an issue (perhaps just a little visual annoyance). But the new 2010 version has some interesting feature improvements, so you may want to ask your retailer if they would exchange your just purchased S&T2009GPS for the current version.
Gotta P,
A couple of things. That bug is of no consequence. It has no effect on your ability to navigate using Streets&Trips. I appreciate that it's a technical annoyance but it has no other impact.
Second, contact Microsoft and explain that you were not aware the 2010 version with GPS receiver was not available yet and you would like to return the 2009 for a refund so you can get 2010. See what they say. Some major software vendors have a no-questions-asked satisfaction guarantee. I don't have the Streets&Trips packaging in front of me so I don't know if Microsoft is one of them. But it costs nothing but a bit of your time to ask.
...ken...
A couple of things. That bug is of no consequence. It has no effect on your ability to navigate using Streets&Trips. I appreciate that it's a technical annoyance but it has no other impact.
Second, contact Microsoft and explain that you were not aware the 2010 version with GPS receiver was not available yet and you would like to return the 2009 for a refund so you can get 2010. See what they say. Some major software vendors have a no-questions-asked satisfaction guarantee. I don't have the Streets&Trips packaging in front of me so I don't know if Microsoft is one of them. But it costs nothing but a bit of your time to ask.
...ken...
I've been searching for an e-mail address for MS Support, and they do a pretty doggone good job of hiding it! If anyone has an e-mail address, I'm willing to e-mail them and see if they have a patch or can work out some sort of deal to upgrade to 2010. I'd be willing to split the cost of 2010 for an upgrade, just seems wrong to have paid full price for an outdated peice of software when I had no idea 2010 had already been released!
I purchased from Best Buy, and I can guarranty they won't exchange it for the newer version because the 2009 package has been opened! Besides, they did not have S&T 2010 when I was there last week!
I purchased from Best Buy, and I can guarranty they won't exchange it for the newer version because the 2009 package has been opened! Besides, they did not have S&T 2010 when I was there last week!
Let me Google that for you....
http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/render.aspx?view=22&type=mnp&content=22/custsrv
Scroll down to the "Contact Our Customer Service Team" heading and you can use online chat or email.
...ken...
http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/render.aspx?view=22&type=mnp&content=22/custsrv
Scroll down to the "Contact Our Customer Service Team" heading and you can use online chat or email.
...ken...
Well, I tried useing the technical support option from the drop down, but when I got to the link for Streets & Trips 2009, it said the page was not available!
I then chose the option for a refund and was able to complete the form. I didn't ask for a refund, just asked if there was any way I could upgrade to 2010 without having to pay full price being as I just purchased the old version at full price! I guess I'll wait and see what they say...
Thanks for the link!
Paul
I then chose the option for a refund and was able to complete the form. I didn't ask for a refund, just asked if there was any way I could upgrade to 2010 without having to pay full price being as I just purchased the old version at full price! I guess I'll wait and see what they say...
Thanks for the link!
Paul
You're welcome, Paul. Please keep us posted on how it goes.
...ken...
...ken...
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