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Streets and Trips 2009 Insane Routing Behaviour!
Joe Bedford
I just got S&T 2009 this week so if I've missed something obvious, please let me know.

I'm planning a fairly long trip from up north to down south. Two stops on the way are Garrison, TX and Whitney, Hill, Texas. S&T takes me from Garrison to Waco then on a flattended circle west about 100km before looping back northeast to Whitney - about a 200km detour. I've tried both Quickest and Shortest routing preferences - no differences. How do I fix this problem???

To make matters even more confusing, I put in Garrision and Whitney as the Start and Stop of a test route: S&T routed perfectly - ARGHHH!

Cheers, Joe
Ken in Regina
Hi Joe,

Can you give us some more information on the other parts of the trip? We need at least the last point immediately before Garrison and the first point immediately after Whitney Hill so we can see if it's a problem that is generally reproducable. There are also a couple of us here who have other products with the same Navteq map data that Microsoft uses so we can test to see if it's a problem, generally, in the Navteq data or a problem unique to Microsoft's routing routine.

...ken...
Joe Bedford
This is probably overkill, but here are the results with only 3 waypoints. The nutty loop is there!! I've highlighted the start, end and intermediate milestone.

Time Km Instruction For Toward
Summary: 575.7 kilometers (1 day, 23 hours, 12 minutes)
DAY 1
11:01 AM 0.0 Depart Camp Tonkawa Springs RV Park [4675 CR 153 , Garrison TX 75946, (936)564-8888] on CR-169 [Phillips Rd] (West) 0.1 km
11:02 AM 0.1 Turn RIGHT (North) onto Case Rd [CR-153] 1.9 km
11:05 AM 2.0 Road name changes to Local road(s) 0.4 km
11:06 AM 2.4 Turn LEFT (West) onto CR-3197 4.5 km
11:13 AM 6.9 Turn RIGHT to stay on CR-3197 2.5 km
11:17 AM 9.4 Bear LEFT (North-West) onto CR-3196 2.1 km
11:21 AM 11.5 Turn LEFT (West) onto CR-3198 2.3 km
11:25 AM 13.9 Turn LEFT (West) onto US-84 0.5 km
11:26 AM 14.3 Turn RIGHT (North) onto E 1st St, then immediately turn LEFT (West) onto Gregg St 0.3 km
11:27 AM 14.6 Turn RIGHT (North) onto US-259 [Railroad Ave] 16.8 km
11:37 AM 31.4 Turn LEFT (West) onto CR-376 (E) 5.2 km
11:45 AM 36.5 Bear LEFT (South-West) onto CR-314 0.5 km
11:47 AM 37.0 Turn RIGHT (West) onto CR-377 1.6 km
11:49 AM 38.6 Turn RIGHT (North) onto FM-225 1.1 km
11:51 AM 39.7 Bear LEFT (West) onto CR-438 4.6 km
11:58 AM 44.3 Turn RIGHT (North) onto CR-401 1.0 km
12:00 PM 45.3 Turn LEFT (North-West) onto CR-413 0.9 km
12:02 PM 46.2 Bear RIGHT (North) onto CR-414 0.8 km
12:04 PM 47.0 Turn LEFT (West) onto CR-407 0.5 km
12:05 PM 47.5 Bear LEFT (West) onto US-79 83.4 km
12:53 PM 130.9 Turn RIGHT (West) onto SR-256 Loop-Truck [E TX-256-Loop] 7.2 km
12:57 PM 138.1 Keep RIGHT onto Local road(s) 90 m
12:57 PM 138.2 Bear RIGHT (South-West) onto US-79 [US-84] 18.0 km
1:09 PM 156.2 Keep RIGHT onto US-84 133.9 km US-84 / Fairfield
2:26 PM 290.1 Turn LEFT (South) onto I-35 N [US-77 S] 1.4 km
2:27 PM 291.5 Take Ramp onto I-35 [US-77] 8.6 km I-35 / US-77 / US-81
2:32 PM 300.0 At exit 330, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-35 S 0.4 km TX-6 / TX-340-Loop N / Meridian / Marlin
2:32 PM 300.5 Keep RIGHT onto TX-340-Loop N [TX-6 N] 1.2 km
2:33 PM 301.6 Take Ramp (LEFT) onto SR-340 Loop [SR-6] 3.0 km TX-340-Loop / TX-6
2:35 PM 304.6 Turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.2 km TX-298-Spur / US-84 / Waco Dr / Franklin Ave
2:35 PM 304.8 Bear LEFT (North-West) onto TX-340-Loop W [TX-6 N] 0.2 km
2:36 PM 305.1 Turn LEFT (West) onto Woodway Dr 0.4 km
2:36 PM 305.4 Take Ramp (LEFT) onto US-84 51.5 km US-84
3:06 PM 356.9 Keep RIGHT onto Local road(s) 70 m
3:06 PM 357.0 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto SR-36 52.1 km TX-36 / Hamilton
3:36 PM 409.1 Turn RIGHT (North) onto US-281 [N Rice St] 33.4 km
3:53 PM 439.4 Refuel before here (last refuel was 439.4 kilometers ago)
3:56 PM 442.5 Turn RIGHT (East) onto SR-6 [State Hwy 6] 36.8 km
4:17 PM 479.3 Turn LEFT (North-East) onto SR-22 [W Morgan St] 1.7 km
4:18 PM 481.0 Bear RIGHT (East) onto FM-2840 [SR-174] 0.4 km
4:19 PM 481.4 Keep STRAIGHT onto FM-2840 [E Morgan St] 3.8 km
4:23 PM 485.2 Keep STRAIGHT onto FM-2840 0.5 km
4:23 PM 485.7 Turn RIGHT (South) onto County Road 1110 6.2 km
4:33 PM 491.9 Turn LEFT (North) onto County Road 1105 12.4 km
4:52 PM 504.3 Road name changes to FM-1713 9.8 km
4:58 PM 514.0 Turn RIGHT (South-West) onto FM-1713 Spur 0.2 km
4:59 PM 514.2 Bear RIGHT (West) onto Yellowstone Dr 0.1 km
5:00 PM 514.3 Arrive 149 Yellowstone Dr, Whitney, TX 76692
End of day
DAY 3
9:00 AM 514.3 Depart 149 Yellowstone Dr, Whitney, TX 76692 on Yellowstone Dr (East) 0.1 km
9:00 AM 514.5 Bear LEFT (East) onto FM-1713 Spur 0.2 km
9:00 AM 514.7 Bear RIGHT (East) onto FM-1713 0.4 km
9:01 AM 515.0 Bear RIGHT (East) onto County Road 1230 1.1 km
9:03 AM 516.1 Keep STRAIGHT onto County Road 1231 2.3 km
9:07 AM 518.4 Turn RIGHT (South) onto County Road 1236 2.7 km
9:12 AM 521.2 Turn LEFT (East) onto County Road 1239 0.3 km
9:13 AM 521.5 Bear RIGHT (East) onto W Jefferson Ave 0.6 km
9:14 AM 522.1 Turn RIGHT (South) onto N Center St, then immediately turn LEFT (East) onto W Washington Ave 0.2 km
9:16 AM 522.3 Turn RIGHT (South) onto N San Antonio St, then immediately turn LEFT (East) onto W Polk Ave 0.3 km
9:17 AM 522.5 Turn RIGHT (South) onto S Guadalupe St, then immediately turn LEFT (East) onto W Cleveland Ave 0.2 km
9:18 AM 522.7 Turn RIGHT (South) onto S San Marcos St 0.4 km
9:19 AM 523.1 Road name changes to S San Marcus St 0.3 km
9:20 AM 523.4 Turn RIGHT (South) onto FM-933 [S Colorado St] 1.0 km
9:22 AM 524.3 Keep STRAIGHT onto FM-933 23.6 km
9:37 AM 547.9 Keep STRAIGHT onto FM-933 [Gholson Rd] 70 m
9:37 AM 548.0 Turn LEFT (East) onto Rogers Hill Rd 11.2 km
9:54 AM 559.2 Turn LEFT (East) onto Ross Rd, then immediately turn RIGHT (South) onto Rogers Hill Spur 1.9 km
9:58 AM 561.1 Bear RIGHT (South) onto Fort Graham Rd 1.5 km
10:01 AM 562.6 Bear LEFT (South) onto FM-933 [Gholson Rd] 10.1 km
10:08 AM 572.7 Turn RIGHT (West) onto (E) Herring Ave 3.0 km
10:14 AM 575.6 Bear RIGHT (West) onto FM-1637 [Herring Ave] 70 m
10:14 AM 575.7 Arrive Waco

SUMMARY
Driving distance: 575.7 kilometers
Trip duration: 1 day, 23 hours, 12 minutes
Driving time: 7 hours, 12 minutes
Cost: $150.46
Marvin Hlavac
Joe, indeed there seems to be some routing issue.

Start: Camp Tonkawa Springs RV Park
Stop: 149 Yellowstone Dr, Whitney, TX
End: Waco, TX

The attached screenshots illustrate 1. bad routing, and 2. routing corrected with the "Avoid Area" feature.
Attached Images
streets-trips-2009-bad-routing-20081010.gif   streets-trips-2009-good-routing-20081010.gif  
ktrack
Tried this in ST 2006 and it routes exactly the same way.
Joe Bedford
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktrack
Tried this in ST 2006 and it routes exactly the same way.

OK, for a complete newbie to S&T, that's scary. Is there a mechanism to report this weird stuff? Will anyone listen? I suppose the map data should be reported to Navteq and the routing to Microsoft?

Joe
tcassidy
If I got the locations right (I had to do the RV park by coordinates) this problem is not with Navteq data. Garmin CNNA NT 2009 is pretty well the same age of Navteq data.

Terry
Attached Images
mapsource-route.jpg  
MisterMoonlight
Quote:
OK, for a complete newbie to S&T, that's scary
Yeh, it's a fun way to visit Texas, Isn't it ?

One benefit of mapping software like Street and Trips is that we can easily look the complete trip and see if it makes sense or not. And be prepared to draw some avoid area rectangle in the hope that the routing problems are corrected in the next revision! But most of the time, the proposed routing is very good...

For this kind of problem, i would like to have a kind of program update feature, because it is a major problem related to the most important functionnality of the product: trip routing. It is not the best approach to wait one full year to correct a problem as basic as that .
Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
If I got the locations right (I had to do the RV park by coordinates) this problem is not with Navteq data. Garmin CNNA NT 2009 is pretty well the same age of Navteq data.

Terry
Thanks for checking that, Terry. Saves me having to do it. That's why I asked for more data but I didn't get around to it today. My new iQue 3600A showed up so I've been playing with it. :clap:

...ken...
tcassidy
Ken,
You never mentioned you were a pilot.

Terry
Joe Bedford
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMoonlight

For this kind of problem, i would like to have a kind of program update feature, because it is a major problem related to the most important functionnality of the product: trip routing. It is not the best approach to wait one full year to correct a problem as basic as that .
Then, being a newbie I have to ask "What is the purpose of the check for updates tick box?" I would hope that some programmer at Microsoft would see this obvious and serious flaw and correct the problem and stick it in the next release.

Or am I hearing that there are NO program updates - just buy next year's version? And this flaw exists in S&T 2006??!!!

Anyway, I didn't know until yesterday about the avoid areas feature and I will use that...

Cheers, Joe
kcflyer
As I expected, MapPoint 2009 has exactly the same problem.

I played around a bit by moving the stop. If you move the stop 5 miles east (like just east of downtown Whitney), the route snaps back to something sane.

I suspect this is some corner-case glitch in the routing code. Hopefully we've given our friends at Microsoft enough info for them to track it down. I'm not going to hold my breath for a patch, however...

Rick
PetalumaLoco
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bedford
I just got S&T 2009 this week so if I've missed something obvious, please let me know.

I'm planning a fairly long trip from up north to down south. Two stops on the way are Garrison, TX and Whitney, Hill, Texas. S&T takes me from Garrison to Waco then on a flattended circle west about 100km before looping back northeast to Whitney - about a 200km detour. I've tried both Quickest and Shortest routing preferences - no differences. How do I fix this problem???

To make matters even more confusing, I put in Garrision and Whitney as the Start and Stop of a test route: S&T routed perfectly - ARGHHH!

Cheers, Joe
It's not just a 2009 problem, I just duplicated it in 2008.
tcassidy
Since everybody is testing older versions, here it is in S&T 2004. Looks pretty good. I think Microsoft has coded one of the roads as one way in the later versions.

Terry
Attached Images
s-t11-route.jpg  
MisterMoonlight
Joe Bedford said:

Quote:
Then, being a newbie I have to ask "What is the purpose of the check for updates tick box?" I would hope that some programmer at Microsoft would see this obvious and serious flaw and correct the problem and stick it in the next release.
I think the update feature is a new feature, because it was not there in the 2007 version (i don't know if it was for the 2008 version). So maybe it could be useful as a Christmas gift for S&T users to get S&T 2009 routing problem patch
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