Streets & Trips 2009 - HUGE MAP FILES

Hi Folks,

Just recently upgraded to Streets and Trips 2009 and have used it since 2005. 2009 version (retail) is giving me fits. (BTW, I drive a big truck for a living)

First, let me say, I used the Previous patch to install the added (missing) POI things like colored flags and squares.

I then used the POI extracter on my old master maps to exract all my places, then got all the Flying-J data from the other POI website.

Everything looked good until with all my waypoints and such replaced and the map file size was about 620KB.

Then, I started putting in routes and notice it was getting slower and slower to load and save. I then discovered my map files were growing and one got as large as 623 MEGABYTES!!!! (have 1.5 GIG mem on laptop)

So, thinking I did something wrong, started from scratch, fresh install and did it again. Same result.

For some reason, it seems to want to make my files grow to HUGE proportions for even simple 3 point routes.

Anyone else experience this?

PS: Have all the latest Virus updates, etc. Scanned computer using CA and Spyware Doctor, nothing bad.

Thanks!

UPDATE - 11-23-2008 - Messages 6 and 7.

Hi TennesseeTruckDriver,

Welcome to Laptop GPS World.

Which patch are you referring to? Is is the exe file from mapforums.com, or is it one of the three versions of templates downloaded here? If it is the *.exe file, then you could try to uninstall your Streets & Trips 2009 again, re-install it, don't use the .exe "patch" anymore, but rather use one of the templates available at: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/1032-template-old-style-pushpins-streets-trips-2009-mappoint-2009-a

I am pretty sure that is the one I used, but I am trying it again and will let you know the result soon, tonight.

8-)

Okay, new install... ran tons of tests.

Seems okay now... hmmm, must have buggered it up somehow before. If anything weird happens in the future, will be sure and let ya'll know!

Sorry for the wasted thread space and thanks!

I'm glad it seems to work OK now.

Woopsy, spoke too soon.

Take a file with my points in it. Save it, then save again under new name. Both 533K size. Close ST.

Start ST again, open the first file, save it as the second file, now it's 547K size. Close ST.

Open ST yet again, open second file, save as a new third file, now it's 561K size. Close ST.

Open ST yet again, open third file, save as the FIRST above file, now it's 576K size. Close ST.

There is for sure a bug somewhere. In every file open save close, NOTHING is touched or changed, only open, save as, close, exit ST.

Yikes! This is bad.

11-23-08 UPDATE:

Loaded the provided V2 map, added ONLY the Flying-J POI's, does the same thing.

Loaded the provided V2 map, DID NOT ADD A THING, DOES THE SAME THING! FILE SIZE GROWS ON EACH SAVE!!!!

I used FILE/NEW and selected the new V2 map (only one there anyway) with the old flags in it on these tests. Something very buggy!


Open NEW MAP FILE. ADD NOTHING, No POI's, No STOPS. SAVE IT AS:

atest1 = 342K

Close ST, restart, Open atest1, save as atest2.

atest2 = 356K

Close ST, restart, Open atest2, save as atest3.

atest3 = 371K


Very Bad.....

I Uploaded the file created from the new (V2) map with FLying-J and My POI's in it after it was created. Save it several times under different names and it changes constantly growing... Like I originally said, on one map that took minutes to save, it had grown to 623 MEG!! in size!

Can someone duplicate the problem?

Thanks!


11-23-08: When I do a HEX dump of the files, the only thing I notice is some kind of structures with Weather0,Weather1,Weather2.thru..Weather9 constantly repeating in the back of the file. The more saves, the larger the file and the more often these Weather structures repeat.

Attached Files

Main.est (518.0 KB)

I just tried to save your file under different names a few times, but I don't see it grow in size. I'm not sure what could be the cause of that on your computer.

Thanks for trying. I have a Dell D610 laptop with XP on it. Maybe SP-3 did something or other, but I never had any problems with ST-2007 or St-2008.

Are you using a weather program like this:

http://www.download3000.com/download_3778.html

It is a weather program that seems to be infected with a virus of some sort? It is may be completly unrelated, but it is just an idea like another...

I am not using any weather program at all, nor any tool-bars in my IE windows. Hmmm... Spyware Doctor doesn't find anything either.

I just tried the same test again using a fresh install and original .STT file. I created 6 .BMP files for the 6 things I use, ran the test again with the same results.

You have to save to a different file name, then CLOSE ST-2009, then reopen ST-2009, open the last file, save it as a different file, CLOSE ST-2009 again, go look at file sizes and each time about 12 to 15 KB is added to the newly saved file. Very repeatable in every configuration. Does it with antivirus turned off, everything else turned off, makes no difference.

It's a bug with my operating system (which I doubt) or with ST-2009, OR I have something in my computer. Still trying to find something, anything that may have infected it...

Thanks.

I create a route with 5 stops total 2100 miles. Save that file. Then, I edit it, save it as a different name and it doubles.

My map files grow to 55 MEG size after doing this 4 times... sheesh. Maybe something to do with the "UNDO" or something?

Please give us the exact 5 stops you are using so we can try to see this on our side...

It doesn't matter where the stops are. Driving a big rig for a living, I create a complete route map to all destinations, usually start where I am, where I load, where I deliver and save it like this:

0145043.est

Then, I SAVE AS like this (in this case, 5 stops after pickup):

PU-1.est

Stop-1.est
Stop-2.est
Stop-3.est
Stop-4.est
Stop-5.est

Then, I edit each PU-x.est and each Stop-x.est file to include only the individual parts to be used in turn. Each time I do, the files start growing to sometimes huge proportions. Each edit/save grows the file...

I have upload my new .stt and the exact files I am using on this current trip. Feel free to load up 0145043.est and save it as Stop-6.est, delete a couple stops, save it again and watch it grow. Doesn't matter how many stops or anything, just starts growing a lot.

Thanks!

PS: On these particular Stop-x.est files, I created them from new individually because the above process grew them too large! Even minor edits/saves grow them a lot!

Attached Files

Nov08.zip (447.7 KB)

I haven't looked at the files yet, but knowing how sloppy Microsoft programmers are your guess about the undo buffer is probably correct. They probably make it part of the working file area and then made the mistake of saving it along with the good stuff. Nothing else explains what you are seeing in the operations as you describe them.

By the way, excellent testing procedure and description. In my years of doing and managing tech support we treasured folks like you.

...ken...

I can't reproduce the problem in Mappoint 2009. I don't have S&T 2009 to try it on. I only have 2008.

...ken...

TenesseeTruckDriver said:
I have tried to play with your files and i was not able to reproduce the problem with S&T 2009. If i am removing some way points, the file will get smaller and not bigger.

The only things i have seen by playing with my own files is that sometimes the file is bigger than expected after a save, but if in S&T i am doing create a new file, the previous saved file shrinks magically, which is a very weird behavior because i didn't save it later to shrink it. S&T shrink it by itself, it seems like it is removing some things (undo information??) from the previously saved file without telling me

Another problem i have noticed is that i cannot add a pushpin manually in your original map, S&T is rejecting the pushpin when i try to enter one. I have got this from my old converted from S&T2007 files, but not all the time. I have found a workaround to repair the file in such a cases.

Interesting... perhaps a bug with my system then. When I get home again, I plan to re-install the OS and try again.

Thanks for trying! Probably a bug in my system I guess...

I have it too. I route about 12 stops a day as a route sales driver and rename and reuse the same file with about 1500 pushpins. I also imported the 2007 pins (from this site) into 2009 and also use the helper .exe program (fron this site) for GPS navigation. MY FILE SIZE IS OVER 500MB! It seems to be growing exponetinally! Something is seriously wrong and MS needs to fix this! Mike R, Tampa FL

I have turned off Virtual Memory, eliminated any question of virus or trojan, done a boot level memory test, everything I could think of.

1) All other programs work fine.
2) No changes I have made make any difference.
3) Doing a HEX-ASCII dump of the file shows limitless copies of something with Weather0...Weather12 attached to end.

I have used ST-2005 thru ST-2008 and had no problems with the previous versions. So, next time I am home, I will install 2007 again and replace the map data with the 2009 version and see how that works.

I think MS has done it again, using the public to do the beta testing... hate MS for that.

I was not able to reproduce the problem.

I can give it a try again, but gives your files and an exact procedure with exact detailed steps to reproduce the problem...

Is it possible that this has something to do with the Microsoft Live stuff? Isn't there a version of S&T that allows for weather and flight status and traffic conditions and all that sort of stuff? Or am I confusing it with something else?

Is there a setting somewhere that is causing your S&T to download that sort of stuff (or try to) every time you load it?

...ken...

Ken, there was a 2008 "Connected Services" version of Streets and Trips, which allowed for traffic and gas prices info. I don't think there was a weather component there.

This is an interesting issue. It has already been confirmed by two users (even though most of us cannot reproduce it).

Maybe for the next test, you can give the exact S&T options setup you are using and not just the map file... It is may be related to a different option i don't have, so i didn't see the problem

Below is a screen shot of my files. I noted in the file name sequence, when I installed S&T 2009. Before that are 2007 files. The last file is one of a new map file I started today, and copied my pushpins into, because the one i was using got so huge! Each time I save throught the day, it GROWS!

mikeaway said:

Ok if you want:

1- Prepare a fresh new small file
2- List the EXACT operations you are doing and at what point the save is done
3- Report the file size after each save
4- Give the exact option that are configured in S&T for your setup
5- If you are importing pushpin, give us these source files as well.

I want to do the exact operations you are doing to see if i can duplicate this. The more precision and details you give, i think the more chance we can duplicate the problem if it is related to S&T 2009 alone and not something else installed on your computer

Do you have other versions of S&T installed on your system?

Is there any way you can just cut/paste one full section of this stuff into a text file and post it as an attachment so we can take a look and see if there's a clue in there?

...ken...

I'll get to work on the documentation for you over the next couple of days. I uninstalled 2007 thru the control panel before installing 2009. I activated and registered my 2009. What a pain, way to complicated. Generally, I start a new file, import data for push pins from an excel worksheet or copy and paste my pushpins from another s&t map file, then route and re-route thru the day saving often, then at the end of the day, I save as a new name then use the same base of pushpins each day for 13 weeks. (about 1700 pins) I rename my individual push pins with that days date during the day as i go to the stops. (usually 12 a day) At the nd of the day, I save as and start a new day. The renaming of the pins alows me to see the last time I was at any stop.
I'll put the details together and report back. Mike

I already posted a lot of files, but don't have a way to take a picture of the HEX/ASCII dump or anything at the moment. Still, I will try later somehow... maybe I can PRINT it to a PDF or something.

Please don't do a bunch more work. I have a hex viewer kicking around here somewhere. I'll go back and look at one of the earlier files you posted and see what I can see. I forgot about those.

...ken...

I took a look and I can see what you're seeing. Unfortunately the data in each of those segments is binary so there's no way I can guess where it might be coming from. It's not identical between repetitions so it's not just the same thing copied over and over.

...ken...

Mikeaway said:
Don't work a couple of days for this
If you can find a simple short procedure that make it grow (a couple of operations easy to recreate) and not a long complex procedure, it would be much better and much easier for you also (and for us!).

I am searching for this rule: "Divide and conquer"

Trying to make the problem as much small as possible so we can have a chance to "fight it" and win
A long 2 full days of operations could be impossible to control or recreate easily. I think it is not necessary to see from my side that the file is becoming 500MB (i am trusting you about this), i just want to see a small part of the problem, and try to understand what could be the trigger for it.

A lot of Pushpins could be maybe a trigger of the problem (it seems that both of you are dealing with this???)?

Once we have a simple and short procedure that cause the problem, you can try it a couple of time (this same procedure) and if it is always giving the problem from your side, we can try it also. If we still cannot recreate it, we will have to search for what is different on your system configuration than ours...

I still think the "weather0 ..... weather1 ..... weather2 ...." is the clue. It just keeps getting appended to the end of the file over and over again. But it's not just a copy each time. It looks to have some differences in each copy. I wish I knew S&T well enough to know what it might be having to do with "weather" that it's grabbing and adding to the end of the file each time it's saved.

My Mappoint 2009 doesn't do it when I start with the original file and follow the procedure posted in that message and I don't have S&T 2009 to test with.

...ken...

It sounds like my dad is having the same problem. I don't know the exact details of what is going on, but he recently upgraded to ST2009 and he called me complaining that it take 2-3 minutes to save his map (I have been doing tech support for about 8 years now, so I am his tech support). He has lots of pushpins on his map, I would say 500 at any given time. Plus he has a lot of the green and red squares.. i'm not sure if they are referred to as push pins also.

Has anyone found an answer to this problem? It is not feasible for him to reformat his computer, and it is taking up lots of time out in the field. Thanks in advance..

I just had my dad look, and his is 479MB... it's the same problem. He said that about two weeks ago he go the blue screen of death right when he hit save. He saved his map this morning to a different file, and its gone from 161MB to 479MB. :-\ I hope we can find a fix soon.

the last 2008 map was 4MB... this is a huge problem for him.

from 12/10 it went from 11.7MB to 479MB.

Ok... my dad has talked to Microsoft about this problem (there is free tech support for s&t 2009). They tried to get him to email them the file (ha) and told him that if they can't duplicate the problem that it is a problem with his computer. He tried to email it, couldn't, and then tried to zip it. It zipped from 479M to 58M. Any thoughts on that?

If we can get some more people to call microsoft about this, maybe we can get it fixed... the number is 866-452-4755. He said that when it picks up it says it's support for office, but if you say streets and trips it gets you to the right place.

The reason it compressed so well is that there is a lot of duplication in the data. The stuff that is being added to the end of the file is not an exactly repeating copy but it's the same basic stuff over and over again.

...ken...

Everybody who has this problem should report it, and share their tracking number here... so anybody else dealing with them can prove to the support person that they are not the only person having the problem.

I suspect that each tier of microsoft support is strongly incented not to escalate to the next tier, so you have to be as clear, simple and assertive with them as possible. You have to be willing to reject nonsense, and not be willing to accept less than proper attention to your problem. Keep notes on times and names, and if 24 hours goes by without them calling you back, you call them back.

If your dad can't email the zip file, you could tell him to try http://www.sendthisfile.com/info/sendthisfile.jsp. Their free service will allow that size file no problem. If there is any problem getting it to microsoft (some companies filter it as junk), you can email it to me and I will put it up on my website where microsoft can just download it directly.

... and if everything fails, just let me know and I will increase the attachment upload limit here at the site to temporarily accommodate the size of the file. You could then point the Microsoft technical support person to the post where it has been attached.

Welcome to the forums, Greenmethod.

We too have been having this problem with ST2009. we use it for routing deliveries, using a base map that has pushpins added constantly, then saved again as make routes and delete/add delivery pushpins. after 2 day of using the program , we realized we had a 100+meg file as a base file. huge problems.

as others have stated we added the pushpin set.

there is more details about this problem, if anyone can help, let me know.

I just called Microsoft tech support, spent 30 minutes giving them the Disk ID and authentication code, finally got an incident number and a tech support dude (from india I think) and he finally understood the problem and reported it.

He also said Microsoft is likely not to fix it until the 2010 release...

So much for that, I am going back to 2008 and use the updated map data from 2009. Works on my 2007 version too.

We are having the same problem. 15 different maps for sales reps, all have alot of pushpins and the maps get huge. We do a "save as" the same name, and the maps shrink down to a normal size for awhile...this was the only workaround we could figure out

I am also an over the road truck diver and I am using Microsoft Streets and Trips 2010 with the exact same issue. My files grow and shrink but started at aprox 10 meg before I upgraded and now it has grown to nearly 1 gig.

Has anyone found the answer to this problem yet.

I used Streets & Trips 2010 lightly for a couple of weeks and didn't have the growing file size problem I did with version 2009. If you upgraded from 2009 or installed 2010 without completely uninstalling 2009, the 2010 is probably using some of the old 2009 shared files. Completely uninstall and wipe Streets & Trips 2009, and manually delete the 2009 directory left over in the programs directory. Wipe all you can and restart your machine before installing 2010.

I am now using MapPoint 2010, which is the professional version of Streets and Trips. I needed the ability to export pushpins to MS Excel. I am having ZERO file size issues with Mappoint 2010 and am doing the same things that I was doing with Streets & Trips 2009 which had MAJOR file size issues. I highly recommend MapPoint 2010 for any professional route drivers. I route 1/2 of Florida with almost 2000 pushpins on a map I reuse for 13 weeks at a time.

Mike