What are the most powerful, fast and accurate USB GPS receivers for laptops? I want something that will find many satellites in the city, with much accuracy, in a short time. I'm fed up of plugging in my Navation 168 (which came with Streets and Trips 2009) and waiting forever for it to find something, anything.
I mostly do geocaching and urban walking, but I'm sometimes in somebody's car and need to whip open my MSI Wind netbook to get quick directions or whatever.
I mostly do geocaching and urban walking, but I'm sometimes in somebody's car and need to whip open my MSI Wind netbook to get quick directions or whatever.
I think that there are a few members that are using the Globalsat BU353 which is a magnetic mount water proof antenna/receiver.
We recently went to an external antenna and will never go back to a dash top and I think if your concern is getting a fix in the city you would be very happy with the antenna outside also.
http://www.globalsat.com.tw
click on cable gps to get the antennas
We recently went to an external antenna and will never go back to a dash top and I think if your concern is getting a fix in the city you would be very happy with the antenna outside also.
http://www.globalsat.com.tw
click on cable gps to get the antennas
Others have found USB GPS receivers often don't work if plugged directly into a notebook, particularly the Navation 168. Are you using the extension cable that came with the GPS?
Terry
Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonja
What are the most powerful, fast and accurate USB GPS receivers for laptops? I want something that will find many satellites in the city, with much accuracy, in a short time. I'm fed up of plugging in my Navation 168 (which came with Streets and Trips 2009) and waiting forever for it to find something, anything.
I mostly do geocaching and urban walking, but I'm sometimes in somebody's car and need to whip open my MSI Wind netbook to get quick directions or whatever.
I mostly do geocaching and urban walking, but I'm sometimes in somebody's car and need to whip open my MSI Wind netbook to get quick directions or whatever.
Daniel
.... and some of those have had some info posted in http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/516-dual-usb-bluetooth-gps-receivers
I have a selection of GPS receivers and any of them will work in most situations given a reasonable sky view. I prefer the Bluetooth variety because of their flexibility in placement options. If you don't have Bluetooth and cannot sort out your Navation 168 issues, the USB BU-353 mentioned is reportedly a great device.
The Combo BT/ USB GPS devices will not work with S&T in USB mode. All of them I tested have a data rate in USB mode that exceeds that allowable by S&T. They will work fine with S&T in Bluetooth mode though.
Terry
The Combo BT/ USB GPS devices will not work with S&T in USB mode. All of them I tested have a data rate in USB mode that exceeds that allowable by S&T. They will work fine with S&T in Bluetooth mode though.
Terry
We did purchase the usb adapter for ours and the only issue to date was the connection became unreliable because I did not use the heat shrink tubing that came with the adapter.
Since removing the nema connector and making a soldered connection between the usb adaptor and antenna cable all has been completely reliable.
Of course I don't know if the issue would have appeared if I had immediately used the heat shrink.
What I do know is that if you need to have the strongest signal at all times an outside antenna is the only way to go.
Forgot, I have reached the conclusion that the gain with the external antenna HAS to be greater than with an internal antenna. For instance on our bike we have about 15 feet of cable but the reception is perfect, if fact we have a solid fix even in a closed garage. In our rv we have about 20' of cable and the reception is much stronger than with the dash antenna and in a surprising number of times, we have 'all twelve, all the time'.
Since removing the nema connector and making a soldered connection between the usb adaptor and antenna cable all has been completely reliable.
Of course I don't know if the issue would have appeared if I had immediately used the heat shrink.
What I do know is that if you need to have the strongest signal at all times an outside antenna is the only way to go.
Forgot, I have reached the conclusion that the gain with the external antenna HAS to be greater than with an internal antenna. For instance on our bike we have about 15 feet of cable but the reception is perfect, if fact we have a solid fix even in a closed garage. In our rv we have about 20' of cable and the reception is much stronger than with the dash antenna and in a surprising number of times, we have 'all twelve, all the time'.
It has been my experience that the placement of the receiver, distance away from the host computer, is far more important to getting a fix than the actual make.
Is there a way I can add an antenna to my GPSr? Maybe I can upgrade it without needing to buy a new one.
The Navation 168 does not have a connection for an external antenna. I didn't have any problems with that GPS receiver unless it was plugged directly into the laptop. Using the extension cable that comes with it and placing it on the dash seems to work fine. What problem are you experiencing that would require an external antenna?
Terry
Terry
To follow up on Terry's comments, I had no problems with the Navation 168 as long as I used it with the extension cable. However I found the extension cable that comes with it is too short and too stiff to be very useful. You can use a longer, more flexible cable with no problem. I also have a Pharos 500 receiver that comes with the American and older Canadian versions of Streets&Trips. The cable is longer and more flexible and it worked great.
...ken...
...ken...
Surprisingly enough, my experience is that the operating system often cannot find the Navation 168 after standby/ sleep mode if I use the Pharos extension cable. I haven't tried other extension cables though.
Terry
Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonja
What are the most powerful, fast and accurate USB GPS receivers for laptops? I want something that will find many satellites in the city, with much accuracy, in a short time. I'm fed up of plugging in my Navation 168 (which came with Streets and Trips 2009) and waiting forever for it to find something, anything.
I mostly do geocaching and urban walking, but I'm sometimes in somebody's car and need to whip open my MSI Wind netbook to get quick directions or whatever.
I mostly do geocaching and urban walking, but I'm sometimes in somebody's car and need to whip open my MSI Wind netbook to get quick directions or whatever.
http://mobilebusiness.sprint.com/u727/?id9=Ad_2009q1_mbb_598U_waits_300x600
Basically a 3G network gismo, gps and an sd card.
Newer product every day
Daniel
Anglepoise, while I agree that brand is not important we have discovered that the distance of the antenna/receiver is not as critical as I had thought-within reason of course; and in the context of the outside mounting discussion.
Is shorter better?, while I am not an electronics person, the logical answer would have to be yes however I remain amazed at the lack of signal loss through relatively long runs of cable. While I realize that the loss has to be present the additional gain of both the location and receiver/antenna is obviously more than offsetting the loss and I can only imagine what additional performance would be seen if the cable was only a few feet long....
Get it high, get it outside and you also will have a silly grin on your face much of the time.
Now, the intriguing question for me is, what would be 'gained' (get it -gained-) if I mount the antenna receiver on a piece of sheet metal? Would the metal act as a ground plane like it does for our cell phone outside booster antenna??
Is shorter better?, while I am not an electronics person, the logical answer would have to be yes however I remain amazed at the lack of signal loss through relatively long runs of cable. While I realize that the loss has to be present the additional gain of both the location and receiver/antenna is obviously more than offsetting the loss and I can only imagine what additional performance would be seen if the cable was only a few feet long....
Get it high, get it outside and you also will have a silly grin on your face much of the time.
Now, the intriguing question for me is, what would be 'gained' (get it -gained-) if I mount the antenna receiver on a piece of sheet metal? Would the metal act as a ground plane like it does for our cell phone outside booster antenna??
My external GPS antenna is a magnet mount. It performs noticeably better if it is stuck on the roof of the car, or stuck on a 4" square bit of galvanized metal scrap when it's on the dash or on my golf pushcart.
...ken...
...ken...
For those wondering about the possibility of cable losses in a long cable potentially eating up all the gain from an external antenna mounted as high as possible, yes, it can happen.
To illustrate, back in the days when CB radios were all the rage, an acquaintance who lived on an acreage a few miles out of town was right on the limits of being able to talk with CB users in town from the base station in his house. He had a good directional antenna mounted on a short mast right beside his house. The bottom of the antenna was just above the roof.
He decided he wanted to improve the antenna performance, and, of course, everyone said, "Get it up as high as you can."
He lived a little bit down in a valley and the back of his property was at the top of the valley, so he got a longer mast and set it up at the top of the hill. The only problem with this setup was that he needed over 200' of cable to get from the antenna to his radio room in the house. He was rather disappointed to discover that he had no better performance from all his work.
I suggested that he just move the taller mast back beside his house, or put it on top of the house and drop 150' of the cable. That did the trick.
That's just to illustrate that there is a break even point. The frequencies we are talking about with GPS are far higher, therefore the antennas and all related issues, are much smaller. For instance, once a GPS antenna is two or three feet off the ground there's little to be gained from getting it higher, from a performance perspective. After that, the only advantage to height is to get it clear of obstacles that block its view of the sky.
The reason to get it outside on the roof of your vehicle is not to get it higher. It's because the vehicle itself blocks a large portion of the sky view when the antenna or receiver are inside, so getting the antenna or receiver up on the roof gives it a much better view in every direction. It also uses the car as a ground plane.
...ken...
To illustrate, back in the days when CB radios were all the rage, an acquaintance who lived on an acreage a few miles out of town was right on the limits of being able to talk with CB users in town from the base station in his house. He had a good directional antenna mounted on a short mast right beside his house. The bottom of the antenna was just above the roof.
He decided he wanted to improve the antenna performance, and, of course, everyone said, "Get it up as high as you can."
He lived a little bit down in a valley and the back of his property was at the top of the valley, so he got a longer mast and set it up at the top of the hill. The only problem with this setup was that he needed over 200' of cable to get from the antenna to his radio room in the house. He was rather disappointed to discover that he had no better performance from all his work.
I suggested that he just move the taller mast back beside his house, or put it on top of the house and drop 150' of the cable. That did the trick.
That's just to illustrate that there is a break even point. The frequencies we are talking about with GPS are far higher, therefore the antennas and all related issues, are much smaller. For instance, once a GPS antenna is two or three feet off the ground there's little to be gained from getting it higher, from a performance perspective. After that, the only advantage to height is to get it clear of obstacles that block its view of the sky.
The reason to get it outside on the roof of your vehicle is not to get it higher. It's because the vehicle itself blocks a large portion of the sky view when the antenna or receiver are inside, so getting the antenna or receiver up on the roof gives it a much better view in every direction. It also uses the car as a ground plane.
...ken...
I had all sorts of problems in getting a fix until I downloaded the small program 'VisualGPS'. I was able to experiment moving my receiver around while watching the satelite signal strengths etc. For example, my Pharos 500 worked perfectly Velcroed to the lid of my old laptop , but when the same setup was tried on my new AA1 netbook, I could not get a fix. I need the reciever to be at least a foot away from any part of the netbook to get a fix.
Ken,
I don't believe the signal between the GPS and USB connection is analogue or rf so the signal level problems are not the same. The GPS receiver is a complete unit; it takes the satellite data and converts it to a digital signal before sending it on the cable to the computer.
Anglepoise,
Yes, others have found the netbooks to be a little noiser - rf wise - than laptops. The netbook is probably masking the weak satellite signal.
Terry
I don't believe the signal between the GPS and USB connection is analogue or rf so the signal level problems are not the same. The GPS receiver is a complete unit; it takes the satellite data and converts it to a digital signal before sending it on the cable to the computer.
Anglepoise,
Yes, others have found the netbooks to be a little noiser - rf wise - than laptops. The netbook is probably masking the weak satellite signal.
Terry
ken, I haven't thought of the halcyon days of cb radio for many years and now you have me flashing back, D104's, Tram (what the heck was the other brand that made you the big dog-one pinged, one thuded when the mike was keyed) and the countless hours wasted for the right skip conditions so you could brag about having a really dumb conversation with someone EIGHTY MILES away, side band, vfo's-HEATHKIT-tube testers at your local Radio Shack, and the ever present fear of seeing a black vehicle with a directional antenna on its roof driving slowly near your neighborhood (not that I had a amp or anything)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
Ken,
I don't believe the signal between the GPS and USB connection is analogue or rf so the signal level problems are not the same. The GPS receiver is a complete unit; it takes the satellite data and converts it to a digital signal before sending it on the cable to the computer.
I don't believe the signal between the GPS and USB connection is analogue or rf so the signal level problems are not the same. The GPS receiver is a complete unit; it takes the satellite data and converts it to a digital signal before sending it on the cable to the computer.
I understand that. It only makes the problem worse. The attenuation of a high frequency digital signal is much greater than that of a lower frequency analog signal.
When running anything through a piece of wire it's no longer RF, it's electrical, whether it's the GPS receiver to PC distance or the distance from my friend's antenna to his CB receiver. In either case, as soon as the radio frequencies hit the antenna they are converted by the antenna into an electrical signal travelling over the wire.
But the same principals of attenuation apply, whether it's electrical, optical or RF. The higher the frequency, the higher the attenuation (eg. shorter the distance it travels before degrading to the point of being unusable). It's a squares law function ... the signal degrades as the square of the frequency.
...ken...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kft
... and the ever present fear of seeing a black vehicle with a directional antenna on its roof driving slowly near your neighborhood (not that I had a amp or anything)....
Yep, many happy hours wasted. Sure made a lot of good friends, though.
...ken...
The digital signal from a GPS receiver never exceeds 140k bps and is often quite a bit less. I think the cable length limit is just as much to do with getting enough of the 5 volts to the receiver to run it. Look at the MR350 which comes with a 15 foot cable. How far would you want to go? If that's not far enough repeating a USB signal is as often as easy as using an active hub.
Terry
Terry
Hi Terry,
I appreciate that there are lots of ways to boost electrical signals. That doesn't change the original concern of what happens when you add too long a cable. In fact that's the reason for boosting the signal ... to get around the problem of cable length.
By the way, the 140kb/s isn't the signal frequency; it's the data rate. Not the same thing.
...ken...
I appreciate that there are lots of ways to boost electrical signals. That doesn't change the original concern of what happens when you add too long a cable. In fact that's the reason for boosting the signal ... to get around the problem of cable length.
By the way, the 140kb/s isn't the signal frequency; it's the data rate. Not the same thing.
...ken...
... it's not the signal frequency, yes, and the signal frequency/cable length matters in the case of the earlier CB antenna example, and the signal frequency/cable length also very much matters when we talk about an external GPS antenna. However, if we talk about most USB GPS units, which are (most of them) antenna/receiver combo units, then in such scenario the frequency doesn't play any role, I don't think. The cable leading from a USB GPS receiver (antenna & receiver combo) is not a coaxial cable delivering RF signal, but it just is a wire (wires) delivering the output signal from the receiver. I think in this case just the loss of voltage is a potential issue (usually solvable with a powered USB hub, for example)
According to the manual for our Lowrance 3300C which is on the bike- the cable length for the antenna/receiver module is 25' plus there is an extention with some sort of 'y' adaptor. In total there has to be near 30' of cable and as the pictures show, http://www.betsy-tom.smugmug.com/, there is a six satellite fix in a garage with the door closed!!!!!
I don't understand how, but it brings a smile to my face everytime I think of it.
Forgot, all the cable is used, the excess is very neatly coiled and taped together under the seat
I don't understand how, but it brings a smile to my face everytime I think of it.
Forgot, all the cable is used, the excess is very neatly coiled and taped together under the seat
Hi Terry,
There is still a USB data signal from the combo receiver/antenna unit to the PC's USB port. As far as I know, such data signals are not immune to the laws of physics.
The issue of voltage drop is just another issue. So we add a powered USB hub to boost the voltage to the receiver so the receiver has adequate power to do it's computations and to be able to transmit an adequate signal level to the computer.
Voltage drop is also an issue with the external GPS antennas. Most that I've seen are powered, active antennas. They are, effectively, signal boosters. They have voltage regulation (~3V) and multi-stage linear amplifiers in them. The good ones also have noise filtering.
Cable length is always an issue. Whether we are concerned about voltage drop or data signal attenuation, which one hits us first is moot .. too much cable will cause one or the other to rear it's ugly head. The results are bad in either case.
And there's always someone out there who wants or needs to position the GPS receiver or external antenna in a location that will stretch the cable length limits to the max. It's worth it for anyone using a USB receiver or an external GPS antenna to be aware that there is a limit and if they choose to push it they could have difficulties.
As with all things, it's necessary to strike a balance. Don't get it too close to a PC that can cause interference and don't put it so far away that you can't use the cable that came with it, or a manufacturer-approved accessory cable. If you're troubleshooting performance issues, always be suspicious if the receiver or antenna is very close to the computer or quite a distance away from it.
...ken...
There is still a USB data signal from the combo receiver/antenna unit to the PC's USB port. As far as I know, such data signals are not immune to the laws of physics.
The issue of voltage drop is just another issue. So we add a powered USB hub to boost the voltage to the receiver so the receiver has adequate power to do it's computations and to be able to transmit an adequate signal level to the computer.
Voltage drop is also an issue with the external GPS antennas. Most that I've seen are powered, active antennas. They are, effectively, signal boosters. They have voltage regulation (~3V) and multi-stage linear amplifiers in them. The good ones also have noise filtering.
Cable length is always an issue. Whether we are concerned about voltage drop or data signal attenuation, which one hits us first is moot .. too much cable will cause one or the other to rear it's ugly head. The results are bad in either case.
And there's always someone out there who wants or needs to position the GPS receiver or external antenna in a location that will stretch the cable length limits to the max. It's worth it for anyone using a USB receiver or an external GPS antenna to be aware that there is a limit and if they choose to push it they could have difficulties.
As with all things, it's necessary to strike a balance. Don't get it too close to a PC that can cause interference and don't put it so far away that you can't use the cable that came with it, or a manufacturer-approved accessory cable. If you're troubleshooting performance issues, always be suspicious if the receiver or antenna is very close to the computer or quite a distance away from it.
...ken...
Ken-
Please, review the USB standard and understand how USB works before assuming analog antenna & wire physics applies to digital signal transmission via USB. Terry - you're on the right track.
Of course there is a limit to any cable length for any application.
For the facts, please don't take my word for it (or Ken's for that matter). Please see: USB.org - FAQ: Cables, Connectors, and Networking <edit>Expired link was removed</edit>
You'll see that 10 - 16 feet is typically the max USB cable distance, unless you use link via up to five hubs in which case you can potentially get 150 feet of transmission. I've easily used 30-40 foot linked USB's for a variety of purposes, though most folks would never need that length.
Please, review the USB standard and understand how USB works before assuming analog antenna & wire physics applies to digital signal transmission via USB. Terry - you're on the right track.
Of course there is a limit to any cable length for any application.
For the facts, please don't take my word for it (or Ken's for that matter). Please see: USB.org - FAQ: Cables, Connectors, and Networking <edit>Expired link was removed</edit>
You'll see that 10 - 16 feet is typically the max USB cable distance, unless you use link via up to five hubs in which case you can potentially get 150 feet of transmission. I've easily used 30-40 foot linked USB's for a variety of purposes, though most folks would never need that length.
Hi Pyrotek,
Welcome to the forum.
I'm familiar with the USB spec. Just for the record, the laws of physics don't change regardless whether the electrical signal you are pushing through a wire is carrying "digital" or "analog" information. The electrical signal is still subject to the same influences, like resistance or RFI/EMI. Arguably, digital signals are influenced by such things more than analog, thus the reason they require "regeneration" or "repeating" at shorter intervals than an analog signal would in the same conditions.
As you correctly point out, 10 to 12 feet is about the limit for a usable USB signal in a good quality cable in a non-hostile environment. Expect less from a cheap cable in an electrically noisy situation like an automobile. And that was my point: If you are going to use an extension cable you need to be aware that there is a limit beyond which you may need to regenerate the signal somehow, either with a hub or a booster cable.
...ken...
Welcome to the forum.
I'm familiar with the USB spec. Just for the record, the laws of physics don't change regardless whether the electrical signal you are pushing through a wire is carrying "digital" or "analog" information. The electrical signal is still subject to the same influences, like resistance or RFI/EMI. Arguably, digital signals are influenced by such things more than analog, thus the reason they require "regeneration" or "repeating" at shorter intervals than an analog signal would in the same conditions.
As you correctly point out, 10 to 12 feet is about the limit for a usable USB signal in a good quality cable in a non-hostile environment. Expect less from a cheap cable in an electrically noisy situation like an automobile. And that was my point: If you are going to use an extension cable you need to be aware that there is a limit beyond which you may need to regenerate the signal somehow, either with a hub or a booster cable.
...ken...
Hi Ken-
For the record, you can drop the insulting tone - I'm quite familiar with the "laws of physics". I posted what I did because I felt you were being somewhat demeaning and didactic while simultaneously being somewhat incorrect and, rather than attempting to lecture you, I simply provided a link that gives useful, expert information to the interested parties. Again, useful, accurate information from a verifiable expert source on the topic at hand, rather than at best inaccurate lecturing on the laws of physics.
Some of the statements regarding signal transmission in the posts above are at best inaccurate and a few incorrect. Decide for yourselves what to believe, but hopefully based on verifiable expert sources.
All the best to everyone in their adventures.
For the record, you can drop the insulting tone - I'm quite familiar with the "laws of physics". I posted what I did because I felt you were being somewhat demeaning and didactic while simultaneously being somewhat incorrect and, rather than attempting to lecture you, I simply provided a link that gives useful, expert information to the interested parties. Again, useful, accurate information from a verifiable expert source on the topic at hand, rather than at best inaccurate lecturing on the laws of physics.
Some of the statements regarding signal transmission in the posts above are at best inaccurate and a few incorrect. Decide for yourselves what to believe, but hopefully based on verifiable expert sources.
All the best to everyone in their adventures.
Insulting? Pedantic maybe and long winded occasionally but never insulting!
Of course, my weakness is going off on a tangent.
Terry
Of course, my weakness is going off on a tangent.
Terry
I tried a USB connected scanner once using a 15 foot extension and it didn't work. It was a good USB extension and well insulated. The software didn't give incorrect images; it didn't do anything. My solution was...rearrange and move the scanner and use a shorter cable.
And the point is; the GPS won't give a wrong location because of too long a cable. it just won't work at all. Whether that is due to low voltage to the GPS or the quality of the digital signal at the computer is immaterial. The fix is move the GPS or computer closer together or use a hub (repeater).
Terry
And the point is; the GPS won't give a wrong location because of too long a cable. it just won't work at all. Whether that is due to low voltage to the GPS or the quality of the digital signal at the computer is immaterial. The fix is move the GPS or computer closer together or use a hub (repeater).
Terry