Microsoft Streets and Trips is a mapping software product. It contains street-level map data for USA, Canada, and Mexico. The European version is marketed as Microsoft AutoRoute.

The basic features of the mapping software include address search, route creation, multiple-stop route optimization, GPS navigation, import and export of data, and it includes numerous map annotation tools letting users add text and draw on the map.


This computer software offers many more features than the various free online maps do. All the map data is installed on the hard drive, so the use of the program is not dependent on the Internet connection.

Microsoft targets the application at the consumer market, yet it is being used widely by professionals and companies. A more expensive version, which can be controlled programmatically, is targeted specifically at the business market, and is called Microsoft MapPoint. MapPoint also comes in separate versions for North America and Europe.

• ST2013

The new version, which was supposed to be named "2012" has been delayed by several months. It will most likely be called version "2013" instead.

• ST2012

Version 2012 / 2013 release date?

For the benefit of those inquiring when Streets and Trips 2013 (or 2012) becomes available, the following are approximate release dates of a few previous versions:

Version 2005 – August 31, 2004
Version 2006 – October 6, 2005
Version 2007 – October 11, 2006
Version 2008 – August 20, 2007
Version 2009 – August 23, 2008
Version 2010 – August 31, 2009
Version 2011 – February 11, 2011
Version 2012 - ???
Version 2013 - ???

In earlier years, new versions had their release dates set for the end of summer / beginning of fall, but the current version released months later, in the February, making it more difficult to predict the S&T2013 release date.

UPDATE: The following was posted here by Microsoft on January 13, 2012:

• ST2011

New in 2011:

Updated street-level maps for the United States, Canada, Mexico, US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico – Version 2011 includes approximately a year and a half fresher map data than the previous version, 6,538,642 miles of navigable roads (up 88K miles from last release), 1.9 million points of interest.

Get notified of new products and services - This is Microsoft's 3rd iteration of this feature. In 2009 there was a simple implementation that popped up a small dialog box letting the user know that a new version is available. In 2010, it was expanded so the text in the message could be changed and messages could be displayed to any version of the product including the multilingual versions of MapPoint and AutoRoute. Now in 2011, Microsoft has the ability to show the user an image on launch. It can alert users to a new version or a special promotion or to a cool new tip on laptopgpsworld.com LOL.

Send map feedback - Send missing data/road information directly to NAVTEQ, the map data provider, rather than via Microsoft. On the menu bar, click Help, then select Send map feedback. On a couple of occasions in the past, I sent map data corrections to Navteq, and I was delighted to find out they had a system in place that would actually let the user know the result of their investigation.

Simplified setup/installation - The installer no longer prompts the user to set Bing as the homepage for the web browser, and there are no more Bing Toolbar options, etc.

Some improvement in the driving instructions over previous releases - One of the subtle improvements is the richer "towards" signpost data.

This shows up in the Itinerary and is also displayed in the bottom Navigation pane in square brackets [].

Here is a quick side by side screenshot of version 2011 vs 2010 for the same route:


You can see on the LEFT (2011) there is directionality or cardinal directions associated with the Highways. For example "I-15 N" versus as it was in 2010 "I-15". It doesn't seem like a big deal but when you are traveling in unfamiliar territory and taking on-ramps and exchanges between highways - direction DOES make a difference.


Many additional alternate names have been added to S&T 2011. In the screenshot above, see an example where I-90's alternate name is also given ("Mountains To Sound Greenway").

History

• ST2010

Driving Time, Next Stop, and Distance to End, are now all displayed in the bottom right corner of the Navigation pane.

Save upon close feature has been added. When enabled, Streets and Trips automatically saves custom map settings, and reuses them when the map reopens.

Import/Export .GPX files ability has been implemented to allow users to export waypoints (pushpin data), route points and GPS trail (tracks) into a GPX file.

Export to a GPS navigation device / Export to mobile phone - A trip planned in Microsoft Streets and Trips 2010, and later versions, can be exported to a GPS navigation device either via a USB connection or wirelessly via MSN Direct.

Show/Hide pushpin set, Show/Hide pushpin information - Version 2010 adds the ability for users to easily hide/show individual pushpin sets. When pushpin sets are shown, users can toggle show/hide all pushpin information balloons.

Delete visible pushpins inside or outside of a selected area is yet another pushpin management feature added to the trip planning software in the 2010 version.

The 10,000 addresses import limit has been removed. Earlier versions of Microsoft Streets & Trips, Microsoft AutoRoute, and Microsoft MapPoint, allowed up to 10,000 addresses to be imported at one time. This hard coded limit has been removed in the 2010 versions of the mapping software.

Rename Route Stops is one of those new features added in v. 2010 that is comparatively minor, but really adds a lot of usability to route planning. Right-click an item in the Route Planner, and select "Rename".

Pause Windows Media Player during spoken navigation instructions. Configure the software to turn off your music while voice instructions are spoken.

Please, read our version 2010 review for more details.

• ST2009

Free trial version – Starting with the 2009 version, Microsoft introduces free 60 days trial. Try before you buy.

Mexico – Version 2009 adds street level map coverage to most of Mexico.

Voice direction prompts that include street names - Previous versions of the navigation program would simply say: "Turn right", the new 2009 (and later versions) will say: "Turn right on Main Street".

"Pan" and "Select" tools
Automatic re-routing can now be user enabled/disabled

Automatically start GPS when application starts – users can enable/disable this feature starting in 2009 version.

Temporarily disable Windows screen saver while GPS is running – users can enable/disable this feature

Location Sensor - The location sensor has been moved to the status bar. Latitude and longitude are always visible in the new 2009. Users no longer need to enable Location Sensor.

Please, read our version 2009 review for more details.

• ST2008

Perspective Map View – Version 2008 adds “Perspective map view”, a feature which users of other products call simply 3D-view, and in later version of Streets & Trips the feature will be named “Navigation view”.

Automatic re-routing is introduced in v. 2008.

Connected Services – Streets and Trips with Connected Services edition adds the ability to visually display traffic flow by color coding road segments green (normal), yellow (moderate) and read (heavy). It shows traffic incident locations, and it lets users to search for current fuel prices of nearby fuel stations. However, the Connected Services edition was later discontinued.

Activation – V. 2008 adds software activation.

More in version 2008 review.

• ST2007

Full-screen navigation mode – The 2007, and later versions, can be optionally switched to full screen mode while navigating.

Estimated Drive Time feature - Driving Guidance Pane now shows remaining time to destination (in addition to distance to turn).

Integration with Windows Live Search – In addition to search for POIs (Points of Interest), ST2007 and later, can search much greater POI database online, if users are connected to the Internet.

Details in version 2007 review.

• ST2006

Voice-Prompted Directions – ST2006 is the first version that adds voice direction prompts.

Driving Guidance Pane is a new feature in S&T 2006 and it includes text-prompted turn-by-turn directions, enlarged arrows indicating where to turn, and distance measurement as drivers get closer to their destination.

Dynamic Turn View, also known as auto-zoom, added in version 2006.

Night Map Style – useful while navigating at night.

More in version 2006 review.

• ST2005

Keep Position Centered. This is a feature that didn’t work well in previous versions. Even though Streets & Trips still cannot show your GPS position in one constant place on the screen without moving, it now at least does a better job at it then before. The icon no longer travels all the way to the edge of the map before the map refreshes, but instead it appears there is some "invisible" border close to the centre of the map and when the icon reaches it the map refreshes and icon goes back to the centre. Not a perfect solution but a great improvement.

Rotate Map to Follow Travel Direction - When this feature is enabled, north is not constantly the top of your map, but instead your heading will be the top.

Recalculate Route from Current Location. A click of a button recalculates the route from the current GPS location.

Create GPS Trail feature added in v. 2005

Configure GPS - Starting in the version 2005, users can easily configure the connection between the GPS receiver and the Software by clicking the new “Scan” button. The feature automatically checks which communication port is the GPS receiver connected to.

GPS Pane, introduced in v. 2005, houses all GPS features: Track Position, Keep Position Centered, Rotate Map to Follow Travel Direction, Recalculate Route from Current Location and Configure GPS. It also displays your traveling speed, compass, altitude, latitude and longitude coordinates, and the time of day

Find more details in version 2005 review.

Even though I'm happy with CoPilot, I was hoping the S&T 2011 would update the program for better use with touchscreens & tablets.

Thanks for this review, Marvin. Subtle enhancements, indeed. Mind you, I will not miss "Find coupons" or "Send to GPS device" and the improved directions will be welcome.

Don't take my word for this, because I've never used the "Send to Mobile device" "Send to GPS device" feature, but if I'm correct it was working in conjunction with MSN Direct service, and a couple of years back I heard MSN Direct was to discontinue, so this was to be expected. The GPX Import/Export functionality, that was added in Streets and Trips 2010, is the way to move stuff around.

I'm still downloading but have a question:

When the GPS is active and a route is planned, can you delete or rearrange stops in 2011? I know that in 2009 (my current version) you technically can, but you have to be REALLY fast to do it.

I think that "Send to Mobile Phone" is available in 2011. It's Send to GPS that's been taken out.

@Malaki86 - I just tested it for you. This behavior has not changed. When a route is plotted, and GPS Tracking has been enabled, and when you then highlight a Stop, End, or Start in the Route Planner, within a second or less, the Stop will lose focus, and you will no longer be able to move the Stop up or down on the list of Stops. So either you must be very quick, and manage to accomplish it in less then a second, or you have to turn off GPS Tracking while you reshuffle the Stops in the Route Planner.

@t923347 - Yes, thanks for correcting us. It's the "Send to GPS device" feature that we've been talking about. I edited the two posts above to prevent confusion.

Hummm. for all the things people wrote about and asked for in great abundance, I for one am really disappointed in 2011. New maps are not an enhancement to updated software, but IMO are just a standard must. Coupons button gone??? OK so you got rid of something that was a waste of time anyways. Improvements in driving instructions? You mean you fixed something that was not working properly. MS had a great chance here to put in some really useful enhancements and kick ass in the GPS race. They missed the boat on this one. This is nothing more then a 2010 version update and fix.

To be honest, if the software didn't say 2011 in it, I'd swear I was using the 2009 version.

I wish Microsoft would update their layout in the Navigation view mode, or at least add a "Laptop" mode.

I am a Professional driver that has been using Streets & Trips all day, every day for about 6 years now.
I know this mode was originally designed for PDA type devices, but everyone that I know uses it on a Laptop instead. Newer "widescreen" laptops are much wider than they are tall, unlike PDA's which were taller than wide. How about a PC and a Tablet mode.

1. Please put the turn directions to the left or right, because with the directions shown at the bottom of the screen it blocks a large part of the usable map area.
2. Please add an Avoid Toll Road button that can be turned on or off at will in route planning, without having to dive into the menus or manually route around.
3. Please get rid of the large zoom rate on zooming in or out. The way it is now, a few clicks and you are looking at the "Earth" from outer space. The smaller zoom rate should be the default as it is all that I have ever needed. Press and hold (+,-) and it will still zoom faster than your eyes can adjust to. [I did have "registry entry" for an older version of S&T's that did just that, but it doesn't work on the newer versions.]

Thanks!

I must say that MS missed the boat on Streets and Maps 2011, not much difference from 2010...

@AJMJ

Actually, S&T 2007 and S&T 2010 worked rather well on both a tablet and a UMPC and I would expect the same for S&T 2011. I agree with your point about the excessive screen real estate dedicated to the Navigation pane when operated in landscape orientation, but that can be reduced somewhat by changing the screen orientation to portrait, if you are using a tablet or UMPC (but not a laptop with fixed conventional landscape orientation).

As for your Streets & Trips 2012 wishlist, there is a long unfulfilled wishlist from users of prior versions elsewhere on this Forum which, at the current clean-up rate, will require a few more decades.

I won't even bother posting any more suggestions for Streets & Trips. It's pretty apparent that they don't pay one iota of attention to them.

The REALLY sad part is that it took them this long to get it released. Why would they need an additional 6 months to release a product that has 3 or 4 minor changes to it.

-1 Microsoft

Has the GPX import been changed so that time is also imported, and thus speed can be computed, or is it still only the lat-long that is imported?

Here's the route section of my current trip. I have a departure time set for each stop:

Wow talk about a lack of feature additions.

Makes me wonder why it took 'em so long to release (have they cut the development staff)?

Well good to know, I won't have to spend the $$ on upgrading!

Way to go MS.

For some reason S&T 2011 does NOT handle the 401 correctly in the area of Carlingview Dr. It takes my car OFF the 401 and then back onto the 401 via Carlingview and Renforth drives whether I am going eastbound or westbound. Somehow the 401 linkage must have been broken in that area by either Navtek or Microsoft. That is a major pain in the neck!

09:00 0.0 mi 1 Depart 5 Beecroft Rd, Toronto ON on Beecroft Rd (South) for 131 yds
09:00 0.1 mi Turn LEFT (East) onto Sheppard Ave W for 0.1 mi
09:00 0.2 mi Turn RIGHT (South) onto Hwy-11 [Yonge St] for 0.4 mi
09:02 0.6 mi Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto Hwy-401 COLLECTORS [MacDonald-Cartier Fwy] for 8.6 mi towards
HWY-401 W
09:10 9.2 mi Road name changes to Hwy-401 [MacDonald-Cartier Fwy] for 2.3 mi
09:13 11.5 mi At exit 351, keep STRAIGHT onto Ramp for 0.7 mi towards Carlingview Drive
09:14 12.1 mi Bear RIGHT (North) onto Carlingview Dr for 0.3 mi
09:14 12.4 mi Turn LEFT (West) onto Renforth Dr for 0.6 mi
09:16 13.1 mi Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto Hwy-401 COLLECTORS [MacDonald-Cartier Fwy] for 4.4 mi towards
HWY-401 W
09:21 17.5 mi Road name changes to Hwy-401 [MacDonald-Cartier Fwy] for 37.6 mi

Attached Images

streets-trips-2011-routing-error-20110213.gif (20.5 KB)

Nothing new implemented. Not much change. Pretty lack luster.

After a quick look, I did see some new autopistas shown in Mexico, but they still don't show the 6-year old autopista from Ojinaga towards Chihuahua.

Baja Boojum - do they show the Arco Norte around Mexico City, which is a brand new super highway that should complete a coast to coast autopista through the middle of Mexico... Should go from Atlacomulco to Texmelucan looping all around DF. We drove the first section from Texmelucan to Sahagun a couple years ago, and it is a great new road. There are several others, but that one is going to make a huge difference when going by-coastal and avoiding DF. Big tolls though.

BAJA - I did take a look for Arco Norte but don't see it yet. I know there are other new roads but haven't had time to look. I think Arco Norte is probably the most important new road in all of Mexico.

It turns out they have screwed up even more major roads around Toronto. Try a trip from Fort Eire to the Yonge Street exit of the 401 and watch what happens when it tries to transfer you from the QEW to the 427 AND what happens when you need to go from the 427 to the 401. Those connections are royally screwed up too! Anyone following S&T coming into Toronto or leaving Toronto on major highways likely is going to be misdirected. Microsoft, WHY? These were fine in the 2010 version!

Attached Images

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streets-trips-2011-routing-error2-20110214.gif (17.5 KB)

I really don't know what I'm talking about but isn't that the fault of the mapping company instead of Microsoft ?
Mike Flannigan

Perhaps, but the mapping company does not have any reporting mechanism for this sort of error, and Microsoft should have done enough testing to confirm that there were no 'losses' from last year to this year. The GPX problems are all Microsoft's, and they are 'working' on getting it right but not there yet. I know that they were told the correct way to do it when the 2010 version came out, since I was the one who provided them with that information, but they still don't have it correct. As for the routing issues around Toronto, that IS a database issue of some sort, and likely is related to the 427 since it is the highway that is not connecting correctly at either end, but the 401 westbound issue, while likely related to the 427, should not be happening and indicates that the highway's link to itself is broken as well. Did the mapping company break the database or has Microsoft, in using the raw data, broken the database? We'll likely never know.

RsH:
Thanks for setting me straight. The reason I thought that is we were routed up a I-70 ramp (Missouri) and down the other side instead of straight ahead. (I didn't take it)
My logic said that was the route the driver had to take because of construction during the time they were mapping that road ????
I have had a couple of other instances of this type of thing in S.Carolina and a few other states.
Regards,
Mike Flannigan

Can we read anything in to this current release?
I mean it arrives almost 5 months after it is usually released, and with few new features to speak of. Also, if MS gets back on track, do we see Streets and Trips 2012 in just 7 months or so?

I wouldn't be surprised if S&T will be discontinued altogether. People often ask me why I still use it. I've been using it since 2004. I still wish S&T had the set the actual speed rate instead of those dang sliders like they had back in 2004. Sadly, I don't believe I will ever see it again.

I am begining to wonder also if Streets is approaching the end of the Product Life Cycle.

That said, I also wonder too the future of MapPoint.

I guess the real question is how many copies of the Product have been sold over the past few years. If MS has seen a large drop-off in Sales (possibly due to GPS's dramtically reduced prices?), it would only make business sense for them to retire the product

Further to the 'errors' I have with the routing around Toronto, I tried to create a stop in the middle of the 401 highway westbound at the 427 to see if I could avoid the loop north and then back south that you see in the first of the three errors in this review. It is impossible to do so, which means that while the road appears in the graphic, it is not in the database. For some reason, if you try to put a stop on the graphic 401 westbound lanes, that stop will jump to one of the access or exit ramps, or a local street, depending on where you try to place the stop. It cannot be placed ON the 401 itself, so the database simply does not HAVE the 401 in that location in its database. While I haven't gone through this exercise with the other location at the southern end of the 427, I suspect a similar result would be seen. So while the graphic shows the road, the database does not really have the road.

Marvin Hlavac said in his review:Are you saying that the toolbar option to go directly to BING maps - in the same place your S&T is located - is gone in the 2011 version - that was one of the neatest features - Why?

No, Tom, no worries, that neat feature you are talking about is still present. The comment you quoted refereed only to the installation process. Two previous versions prompted users, during installation, to change the home page of their web browsers to Bing.com, and to install Bing toolbar, etc. Those "features" are not related to the use of Streets & Trips software, and some users wondered why Microsoft introduced those options to the installer in the first place.

Malaki86 said:

As what already been said, i guess they met major development problems.

My personnal opinion is that it is way better to get a stable product with less improvement than to add a lot of new gadgets to a product and make it crash every hour. For a critical product like this one, used for navigation, if it starts to crash or give bad routing estimate, etc, it is becoming to be useless in my case.

The biggest question is how much are you willing to pay for map update, which is the most important feature of a program like this? It is not so expensive if this could save you getting in a wrong route because of old maps, even for one single time...

Yes. For $39.95 you get Streets&Trips with a few minor improvements and new maps. For $79.95 you get new Garmin maps but no program.

...ken...

I have "heard" that you could get Garmin lifetime maps for as little as $60 (59.99) every once in a while on Amazon. For an extra $20 which would you rather have? Of course, getting the new Garmin map updates to your PC is a huge challenge but they tell me it can be done.

Well, if I'm a Streets&Trips user, that's pretty much a no-brainer.

Not to mention that if you want to use them for navigation on your PC the only program that can use them is discontinued, the last version they released is over a year old and it's so buggy that most people have reverted to the previous version which is another year older.

But, yes, you can usually get the map updates to your PC.

...ken...

Ken: When you said "the only program that can use Garmin map updates on your pc is discontinued" , did you mean Map Source ?
Regards,
Mike Flannigan

Mike, Mapsource hasn't supported GPS in many versions, it is just a trip planning / map management software. Ken was referring to Garmin's PC navigation software, such as Garmin Mobile PC or Garmin nRoute. These are no longer supported by Garmin (even though many people keep on using them).

Marvin:
Thanks for the lesson.
I'm curious, why did Garmin stop supporting them ?
The reason I ask is I have a sense that Garmin is "declining" from their lofty position relative to GPS.
Regards,
Mike

Garmin is king in the handheld and PDA market. That is where the money is. Software just doesn't make the profits that hardware does.

Terry

I think with the advent of smaller notebooks, PDA's, and the like the GPS software could be limitless.

Microsoft in all its wisdom truly can not be so blind to see what the future could hold for GPS software. I think if they were to open up the code as they did with their flightsim software there would be an incredible amount of truly fantastic add-ons developed by users. There is just so much that could be created I am sure. All kinds of tools for various industries and the consumer users. GPS software would far out score the the hardware market if it was given a chance to reach it's full potential. When 2011 was announced I was pretty excited to see that with all the fantastic ideas people had requested we would possibly see the Cadillac of the GPS world. I am a professional driver and love the ease of having my GPS on the same notebook as the other software I use daily. I did not have to have another device stuck to my dash or window some place. Every time I show other truckers, RV'ers, or my passengers what I am using they are just blown away. You could have a GPS as big or small screen as you wanted. It has more options and easier to program your route. It seems that S&T was brought to the front door and then MS was afraid to step over the door jam. They went to the edge and never stepped off. I love S&T and what it could really do for the GPS users. I just hope MS has not decided to give up on it. It would be really nice if a MS staff member would come on here and honestly tell us where MS is wanting, or not wanting, to go with S&T.

Again, S&T has such a huge potential. Please MS don't give up on it.

Terry is right. Garmin is king of the mass market. They don't like niche markets, at least not small niches. And the PC navigation business is a tiny niche compared to handhelds, commercial aviation and marine navigation and now the smartphone market.

They discovered with products like the iQue models, PDA software like Mobile XT and PC software like Mobile PC that the support load is really high and they don't sell large enough numbers to make money on it.

You can see this in the way they are rolling out their smartphone navigation products. They are doing it so the navigation app runs on the smartphone but you need an internet connections for the maps. They aren't loaded on your smartphone. That keeps the tech support to a minimum. Once the app is loaded and running, the user has no more problems. It's downloading maps and map updates that really gives them the most tech support headaches.

Mapsource and Basecamp on the PC are still being actively developed and supported. But as Terry said, they don't do navigation.

...ken...

What truly disappointed me with the 2011 release was that it came out after Windows 7, which is being marketed for use on tablet PC's. A 10-12" tablet PC in a vehicle (at least a big vehicle) is a perfect solution. Instead, they release the exact same user interface that requires a large screen and is *NOT* built to be used on tablets & touchscreens.

Yes, I'll continue using Streets (v2009) for my overall planning of my routes, but I'll also continue to use CoPilot v8 for my actual navigation. You simply can't beat the touchscreen interface built into it. If CoPilot had the time-scheduling set up similar to Streets, I'd walk away from Streets at that point.

As for smartphones & navigation, there are alternatives to having a constant internet connection, with CoPilot being one of them. It's available for the iPhone, Android and Blackberry's (I think). The maps are loaded to the data card in the phone and do *NOT* require an internet connection 100% of the time. Also, CoPilot updates their maps monthly, which is a free download.

My comments about smartphones and maps requiring an internet connection were strictly about Garmin's smartphone software. They have chosen to go the way of some other navigation solutions like Google. Only the app goes on the phone and you have to have a connection to use the maps. There are probably a number of reasons they've decided to go that route, but tech support is definitely high on the list. They have so many problems with their map downloader software. They appear to have decided that it's easier to simply not put the maps on the devices than it is to get their map downloader software to work.

...ken...

Further to the Date/Time error in Streets & Trips 2011, I just generated an export GPX file to be able to give my wife a list of stops in a trip we are planning. The program put, into the GPX file, the following:


This turns out to be the time that the computer was showing, which is EST, of course, since I live in Toronto. Unfortunately, the correct entry would have been:


Because, based on the GPX standard, the time ALWAYS has to be Zulu or Greenwich Mean Time... so in the case of Toronto one needs to add 5 hours when it is standard time, and 4 hours when it is daylight savings time.

In addition, note that the time zone IS NOT displayed, so one does not know when the copyright really starts, since it could, in theory, be in anyone of 24 different time zones, ignoring those that are half hour zones. Was this time in Toronto, Los Angeles, Tokyo or Cairo? The entry as put out by the program thus is really meaningless, as well as wrong. The point of the standard is that Zulu time is only ONE specific time, and can be converted to the correct 'local' time easily.

Microsoft, PLEASE fix this!

I agree, I haven't noticed much useful updating for the last few years except the added streets etc..

I can probably guess that they still haven't got around to allowing the user to add a standard stop time for all your stops without having to manually input each stop time even if they have the same time you want to use on all of them. And why not let the user be able to print your general address list without the directions.

These are important features that could save a user tons of time.

I'm into real estate and it is annoying when I have to manually go down a 20 or more stop route to put in a 15min stop for each one instead of being able to set that as a default stop time for all the stops.

Are the items listed above in this thread stating the "new" functionality in ST2011 the total extent of new features or is there a more extensive review of this release forthcoming ??

Hi hrp41,

This year product developers didn't add much as far as new functionality to their various software. And that includes competing products, not just Streets & Trips 2011.

This year will be remembered as "just a map refresher" year. Hopefully Streets and Trips 2012 will bring to us some new exciting feature or two.

So yes, since there was very little to write about this year, I made the review a summary of new features that were added to the product since version 2005. It may be useful to those who haven't updated for a while.

Marvin - thanks for the reply - maybe the S&T team are trying to regain their strength after the 2010 version which seemed to be a pretty good year for enchacements

Yes, version 2010 brought some very useful features; features I didn't even expect to see because users had been asking for them for such a long time w/out Microsoft implementing them. But it wasn't just v2010. All the previous versions, I'd say from at least 2005, brought some features that definitely improved user experience, especially in the GPS area.

Re: Arco Norte

The NW highway MX57D and SE highway MX150D (San Martin Texmelucan) connections for the “Arco Norte” are on ST2010; they just aren’t labeled as such. What’s missing is the center part. These may or may not be on ST2011. I haven’t installed it to see.

I have drawn a line using the parts that are on ST2010, and interpolated the parts that are missing based on Mexican drawings. If you have ST2011, you can copy and past my line in your program and zoom in to see if the center parts are there (my line should be reasonably close).

If it still is not on ST2011, and you want to actually drive the Arco Norte, you cannot use my line to plan the route, but you can use it to find the access from either direction, and the center parts should be easy just by following the Cuota to the other end.

Re: Arco Norte 2

I’ve driven the eastern leg of the Arco Norte in both directions. It is a very good highway with very little traffic. But I always enter or exit in the area of Calpulalpan, Tlaxcala, connecting north in Pachuca, Hicalgo.

‘Why?’ you ask. Two reasons, one cause!

The Cause: The Arco Norte passes through the state of Mexico in two different places.
The Reasons:

1. The state police of Mexico (that’s the ones that patrol the highways) are notorious thieves (Some? Absolutely; Many? Probably! All? Who knows!) They look for out of state plates (especially north of the border) and will stop you for no reason and demand a bribe of $200 (dollars, not pesos) or more, and if you don’t pay they will tow your car.

2. Smog control! For years Mexico City and now the state of Mexico has imposed restrictions to keep very car off the street at least one day a week. They do this by monitoring license plates, i.e., the last number of your plate determines what day you cannot drive. If you get caught they will tow your car. In the state of Mexico (especially if you have a foreign plate) they will stop you regardless of what your plate number is and demand a bribe.

Caveat Emptor!

Rule of thumb.
Don't drive your own vehicle to Mexico.

I don’t Know for this year (Season 2010_2011), but last year (2009_2010) I drove over 12 000 Kms across Mexico and I didn’t have any of those problems…
With MS S&T 2010 I had 2 major problems: 1) Almost all “one way” was not indicated on map… And the GPS was directing you again the traffic! 2) Often the GPS position was wrong in many city; we was located on the wrong street…

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I agree Streets & Trips 2011 appears to be nothing more then fixes that should have been in 2010. Is there a way to try before buy to make sure the roads have been upgraded properly. There are quite a few upgraded and/or new highways in my area over two years old that should have been in 2010 but weren't.

Yes, you can either download the trial version from MSFT site, or post here with the information about the new highway/road location, and one of us, who already uses the new version, may post a screenshot of the area here for you.

I can't see any difference between 2010 and 2011. Even the bug with the "distance to the end" is still there.
For one whole year they scratched their head thinking what to improve for 2011 version and finally they realized that there is nothing to be improved(!!!!!).
They even released 2011 later than usual because they were thinking to fix or not to fix the bug above mentioned. The final decision is obvious.
I will not waste my money on 2011.

Alain, thanks for the screenshot! That's a very impressive trip! Let's hope Navteq will keep on improving its map data for Mexico, and a few years down the road the coverage quality will hopefully be on par with what we are used to in USA/Canada.

The big problem with mapping in countries like Mexico is that the raw map data that companies like Navteq acquire to assemble their maps from just doesn't exist to the same quantity and quality as what we have available in North America.

Even amateurs who wish to assemble their own maps are in great shape in Canada, US, UK and similar countries where our governments have huge repositories of relatively up to date and accurate map data that we citizens can access for free. A very good example is the Ibycus Canadian topo maps that are available for free for Garmin devices. The fellow who put them together is a university student who did it in his spare time from federal and provincial public databases. It is better than Garmin's Topo Canada in some respects.

That sort of data simply is not available in many countries. That makes it difficult for map data suppliers like Navteq and TeleAtlas to create GPS maps for the country.

...ken...

Arco Norte and Mexico - sorry - it is not my intention to hijack this thread but someone brought this up and I feel I have to comment - I have traveled extensively in Mexico - all over Mexico - since 1971 and have never ever had one single problem with any police of any kind. The only times we have encountered police is at the normal check points and when we get lost and ask for help. We have offered money to those who help us find our way and they refuse. They have never been anything but helpful and kind. I have been hearing these horror stories about Mexico for all of these years and since the first time I went there people have told me I am crazy. Yet in all these years I can't think of one single bad story to tell about our experiences in Mexico. And yes, I have driven all around Mexico City. I am sure there are those who have had bad experiences but I never have. I can't tell you how many times I have been to Mexico or how many miles I have driven or how many places I have been but I can tell you I have a great many years and miles of experience without any problem. So there are positive things that can be said along with the negative. I know this is not a Mexico forum but I just don't think all the negativity is necessary without a counterpoint.

Thanks for that feedback, Confused. It's not off topic at all, and it's very interesting indeed as part of the discussion of the Mexico map coverage quality in Microsoft Streets and Trips 2011.

There wouldn't be much need for us to care about Mexico maps if we were all afraid of vacationing there.

It was the same for us...

I apologize to anyone who may have found my comments offensive.

Loping, I experienced police corruption while traveling in a foreign country a while back, too, so I can relate to what you have described quite well. Thanks for the valuable input. It's always good to hear various experiences from various people.

When I read the oppinions of some people here I tend to ask one of my good friends to interfere and tell u what happen to him in Mexico. I personally came at the border with clothes because he was in underware. Yes in underware. He got beaten and robed 100%(I mean 99.99% coz of the underware).
I can also ask another friend of mine to tell u how he went back into USA without truck, belongings and ID (did I mention that the thing happened two times?).
So again, I'm just confused when I hear from other people what a nice and peacefull country is Mexico.
I don't know what should I believe no more.

Try it by yourself, that’s the only way...

If you speak Spanish and use pesos (not U$ money) that’s help too… in my opinion to get a better welcome!

I don't even cross into the US any more as the border is unpleasant!!

Terry

Terry is right. From various reasons crossing the border (any of it) became lately a such headache. My job consist in crossing the border every week and sometimes is hellish.
Only they know why are doing this.

About crossing the border into Mexico...well, I wont do it soon. I don't speak Spanish at all and I'm not curious to start learning it soon. There are so many other places (where GPS is working well) where is worth to spend my money. Both Canada and USA are blessed with magnificent places to see. For me, to take a risk is a luxury that I can't afford.

I really really did not and do not want to start any fights or flaming posts. I was brought up that if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all. I do not want the bad mouth anyone or anything. But when I read these posts where people make these claims about crime in Mexico – and don’t get me wrong, I do know there is crime in Mexico and there is a drug war and people are getting killed etc. etc. etc. – it does make me want to say something. It would appear, from what is said here, that some people have the idea that there is no crime in the US and that it is only safe if you stay in the US – that none of the things that happen in Mexico ever happen in the US. And again, please do not get me wrong for saying this or misunderstand what I am saying – anyone who thinks these things don’t also happen in the US or that people are safe only here in the US are simply not paying attention. Both the FBI and the US Department of Justice have websites with extensive statistics about crime. I will not post the facts here but if you check it out you may be astounded. The US leads the world in a number of categories. I am not bad mouthing the US or saying Mexico is better or anything like that. Please please don’t take this that way. But let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I read somewhere that 99% of crime takes place within about 3% of the land mass – in other words most crime occurs in very specific areas. This is true in both the US and Mexico and probably a lot of other countries. If you know where the problem areas are and how to avoid trouble you can remain relatively safe in either country. If you are afraid to go to Mexico then don’t go - but at least be realistic about it.

We travel almost full time in our motorhome. We travel all over North America. We love all of it. We visit Mexico in the winter because there is nowhere else we can go in our motorhome where the weather suits us in winter – not even FL or TX or AZ or CA. We go to beaches but also to ruins where there are pyramids as big or bigger than those found in Egypt. We look at the architecture of the old cities and churches. And we meet some really wonderful people. While we are at it we seem to save a lot of money too. We do know the Mexico is not for everyone and that many people have many fears. Mexico is an experience and those of us who spend months at a time there each year do a lot of research before we go and we keep up with what is going on at all times. We know of thousands of US citizens who also visit Mexico each winter and many thousands more who have moved there – 10,000 in San Miguel de Allende and over 100,000 around Lake Chapala and Guadalajara. We follow news of Mexico very closely and though there have been and are many rumors of crimes against Americans the facts actually indicate that these things almost never actually happen. Yes, there is a drug war and right now might not be a good time to go. But that will not be going on forever. I have been hearing these horror stories for 40 years but only in the last couple of years have I actually had any concerns about what is actually going on – as opposed to wild but unfounded rumors. I suggest that anyone interested at all in visiting Mexico do a lot of research and find the online forums where regular visitors to Mexico can answer all your questions intelligently.

It seems to me that the subject is the software Microsoft Streets and Trips 2011

Maybe we need a new topic section for travel experiences. We are a community with the same interests pretty much. Having a "lounge" to tell fishing stories and other tales of adventure might be a fun idea.

Hi Dan,

That "lounge" already exists. Look at the description of the "General Discussions" forum. I know it's not specifically for what you suggest but such topics exist there already and fit there quite nicely.

...ken...

Sorry to add to the 'off-topic' subject, but...

Like many of you we have driven all over Mexico without any problems or hassle. The only hesitation I have nowadays is driving in the border areas with a late model full-size pickup or SUV, since these seem to be what have been carjacked lately.

Anyone interested in good Mexico travel discussion should go to Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree Forum. As usual it attracts the occasional extremists- people who think that stepping over the border is a death sentence, and people who pretend nothing is happening in our neighbor to the south. Most participants give good, reasonable, and realistic advice and information.

And yes- I have promoted Streets and Trips in that forum.

Back to the database issues in the Toronto area. Bing Maps online shows the SAME problem around the 401 highway and the 427 as Streets and Trips 2011. The database clearly is missing the road just east of the 427 in the database, as it detours off the 401 and gets back on the 401 at the 427 or just west of the 427, depending on the traffic conditions selection. So Bing too needs the same fix that S&T 2011 needs. Likely has the same problems with the 427 at the QEW as I had coming from the southwest in S&T 2011. Will they leave Bing that way until 2012 too???

Bob, thanks for pointing out that the same map routing error is present in Bing Maps. I have not observed the same in other Navteq-based products, and I suspect this is a Microsoft made error. It will be interesting to watch Bing Maps over the next few months. My guess is that the error will go away with the next map data update. I wonder how often they do it. Once per quarter? Twice a year? Annually?

I am not sure of the exact procedure for getting MS to correct S&T but what if you drove the correct route with tracking turned on and then use the SEND MAP FEEDBACK function to notify whoever of the correction. Then I suppose just wait?

They are already aware of the problem at this location in Toronto from an earlier message in this particular thread, and it was specifically pointed out to them. Since the roads are on the map visually but cannot be driven over using the routing, the database has somehow not connected the two adjacent segments. The real problem is that once they go 'Gold' with their maps in S&T they cannot change the database until the next year's version. It was fine in the 2010 Streets & Trips, but NOT fine in the 2011 version, and now it shows up also in their Bing maps, so clearly that too uses the same database. The Bing database likely will be fixed faster, but that will not help those strangers to Toronto who do not know the roads. Those of us who do know the roads will simply ignore this problem, and I could supply a GPS track from OTHER GPS units that would show the correct way to go quite easily, but that is not the point. Getting the product database corrected is the point. It is now in MS' ballpark. They KNOW it is broken at this point!

Hi RsH,

When you say that Microsoft "knows", is that because you have notified them directly of the problem through the Send Map Feedback or similar method?

Simply having it in a thread in here means less than nothing as far as Microsoft notification goes.

...ken...

They were informed by direct email to Larry from Marvin and definitely know as I have directly emailed them as well. I have also posted in their Blog with the same problems and they have moderated that and NOT published the problem, so I know that they know it from there as well.

Bob, Ken's suggestion is the best. For map errors, the built-in "Send map feedback" feature is the most appropriate. However, starting with the current 2011 version of Streets & Trips, that feature will notify Navteq, the map data supplier, directly, bypassing Microsoft, so I'm not certain if this is going to help in this particular situation.

I suspect this error happened in the process of Microsoft adding the Navteq's data to its product. The exact same error will unlikely happen the next time MS is adding new map data to the product. But that's just my guess.

It is very unfortunate that this particular error has affected several of Canada's busiest highway intersections.

I've used the internal map feedback for these errors as well as the messages in Larry's Blog for Streets and Trips and the messages here. All bases have been covered,but that does NOT mean that this issue will be repaired for 2011, as we all know. Since the database was fine for 2010, and there was NO change on those parts of the 401, QEW or 427, I have no idea if this was indeed 'new map data' being added to their product or just a screw up with old map data.

Bob, Microsoft adds fresh map data to Streets & Trips each time they release a new version. New version of Navteq's navigable map data is applied to the entire product, even to geographical areas where there has been no change to the road network, no new construction, etc.

Streets and Trips 2011, Oh What Could Have Been.

It seems to me that Microsoft has a team working on Streets and Trips that does just enough to get by. This product should be far more advanced than it is and for the number of years that it has been on the market it far lags behind other Microsoft products in terms of development. If I was the team lead on this product I would be kicking the staff in the ass on this as to why this product is not advancing at a much more dramatic and noticeable rate. It seems like Microsoft needs a fresh set of eyes looking at this product because for as long as it took the development team to get the product to market, the changes are minor.

It would have been great to have an open source version of S & T so that it could be integrated within other applications.

If I was the staff on this team I would be kicking the team lead's butt for not getting the necessary budget allocation to do more with it.

Seriously, for some reason The Powers That Be at Microsoft don't deem this particular product worthy of more budget. If there was, we would see more from it.

...ken...

Will not be buying MS Streets & Trips 2011 !!!

I was able to use the trial version last week on a spring break trip to New Orleans…

Did not see a whole lot of changes from the 2009 version I am using now.

My main problem is that it cannot find my home address. The 2009 and even the 2010 trail versions had no issue finding it.

If it cannot find my home address what other addresses cannot it find??

Hi yr2000, thanks for the feedback. Does it look like a search issue, or are house numbers missing from the street (mouse-click a place on the street to see a number), or is the street completely gone from the map?

Also, can you find the address in Bing maps?

Bill Gates does not use a GPS so he has no clue how bad it is...LOL
Or he uses Tom-Tom.

1. MapPoint 2011 has the SAME problems with the 401 and so clearly the issue is widespread. I tried the address of 4900 Yonge Street, Toronto, ON, Canada in MapPoint and it could not find that address. That just happens to be the Joseph Shepard Federal Building at Yonge Street and Elmhurst Avenue! UGH...So important addresses are not found, such as the Passport Office at 4900 Yonge Street.

That is because it is not in Toronto, according to the map. The one centered over the word, Toronto is in North York according to the look up. Less information may help you!

Terry

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Good catch, Terry. I wouldn't even notice, as Bob did, because I would normally just enter street number, street name, and hit the Enter-key, without any additional information (like city name, etc).

I checked the Canada Post post code look up page and it will accept either entry as the correct city.

Terry

But North York is a part of Toronto, and according to the government of Ontario and the government of Canada and the government of Toronto, North York is at best a postal designation, and all of it is the City of Toronto. That is another problem with the map... I know I live in North York, but it is definitely the City of Toronto that shows up on my property tax bill. They should be able to use BOTH North York and Toronto in a look-up.

4900 Yonge St, Toronto, ON [maps.google.ca]

Is there parking at passport canada, 4900 yonge street, toronto?

So people searching often use Toronto and NOT North York...

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And I live across the street from 4900 Yonge and look out my window at that building and its plaza all the time... so I know exactly where it is, and that it has one p in its Shepard, while the street two blocks south has 2 p's...

Navigation programs which search by street name or address first do best if you do not include the name of the city. This is not a shortcoming of S&T but rather the Navteq data. Where they get their city information is not clear but the search is very fast as long as they know which province/ state you are in. Don't fight it, just go with the flow!

Terry

Further testing shows you can't even add the 'st' without confusing S&T. '4900 yonge' or even '4900 yonge street' is ok as long as it knows you are in Canada!

Terry

Try that with 15 King Street West in Canada and see how many locations come up. The search tool in Microsoft software calls for address, city, province/state, postal code/zip code and country, so it should be able to accept being specific about the city without difficulty. The problem you speak of is with Navteq and not with Tele Atlas, so why should I have to change my method depending on which map source was used? That simply is not on. Remember, the Customer is always right!

I think TeleAtlas has the same problem but uses some fuzzy logic to guess which city you might really want. I have used programs that search by city first and hate them all, no matter what data they use!

If it is really a concern for you, you might try iGuidance which gives you a choice of city or street first. Or CoPilot Live V8 laptop which is strictly city first.

There is so little advantage in the speed of searches for these programs that I have no idea why they force that approach. Yes, there are some examples which need more information. But unless they are in the majority, so what.

Terry

We've had this conversation before, many times. It's not the fault of the map or the search engine. The problem is people guessing wrong.

With large metropolitan areas like Toronto you just mess up the search engine by specifying a city name because you are very likely to get it wrong unless you are an expert (literally) on the municipal boundaries. Better to just enter the address info (house number, street name) and accept the fact that you might get a few duplicates. Better to get some duplicates than get nothing if you guess the city name wrong.

...ken...

For the heck of it, I looked up the 4900 Yonge St, Toronto, ON address in CoPilot 8. It found it perfectly. CoPilot uses NavTeq data.

On the PC I'm at right now, I only have Streets & Trips 2010. It successfully finds the correct location when I enter "4900 yonge, toronto". Later, I'll test it with the new 2011 version. If the 2011 version doesn't find it, and it only finds it when searching for "4900 yonge, north york", than this indeed would be a glitch. Bob, how many years has it been since North York and all the other cities were amalgamated? Has it been a decade yet? This worked in earlier S&T versions, is this really not working in v.2011?