I'll be keeping both, 2010 and 2011, on my laptop. And I'll try to remember to test the adress search in 2011 tonight.

2011 can't find it if you add the Toronto part. 2010 can!!

Terry

I tried it with MapSource, also using NavTeq data. If you enter the city, it finds it in Toronto. If you don't, it finds it in North York!

Sounds like S&T has added an error to their own database.

Terry

A serious error for those of us living/working/driving in and around the Toronto area.

Marvin, I don't know if it is that serious. If you try the same test with your GMPC, you will find that a search without city will show the address in North York and no Toronto choice. A search using the city will give the same location in Toronto. If one was not aware that North York was part of Toronto, this could certainly be confusing..but not for someone living there.

Terry

Attached Images

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Toronto.jpg (231.0 KB)

My question is does this product work with Windows 7 32 bits? I have looked through all of the previous questions, and can find no answer to my above question.

Yes, it works fine with Win 7 32 or 64 bit versions.

Terry

Thanks Terry, much appreciated.

I have run nRoute (since it was free to me), and it did an OK job. BUT a computer change and a lost disk mean that I need to change, I suppose...

My question is - I have the USB "hocky puck" from Gramin's n-route. Will Streets and Trips recognize that satellite receiver???

Garmin nRoute never came with a GPS receiver USB or otherwise. If you mean the Garmin 18 USB, Streets & Trips will not work directly with it. You will need GPS Gate to find the device and provide the correct data type for S&T.

If your computer runs Win XP, I think Garmin Spanner can provide the same service for free. I don't think it is supported by Win 7 or Vista though.

Terry

Exactly what I was running and what I wanted to know. Thx. OBVIOUS newbie.

I'm sorry to post here, but I really need help with my M S&T 2011 GPS receiver, my laptop wont recognize my GPS when connected to the USB port, I get a message saying that USB device not recognize, is there anyway to fix this? I have a new Dell Inspiron 1110 Celeron 743 1.30ghz, Windowz 7 home Premium 64, 2 GB Ram, 250 GB HD.

Just got done tossing S&T 2008 in the trash (it can't find the GPS antena it came with), and was hoping for an insight into some thing better.
So far all I see are people complaining about things that should have been fixed years ago, so I won't bother with my own pet peeves about S&T
Still using 2004, the last decent version I've seen.

Don't waste any more time on it.. Sorry to say it's an S&T problem going back to 2005.

Has S&T changed the window for driving speed entry yet? I've tried the 2008 and it still has the Slower or faster than average junk. Nice idea, but with out a number for average how can you set it properly? Still using 2004, where you can actually set a real speed.

S&T still has the "new" vague sliders rather than the numeric entries you value so highly.

1. Well, Microsoft is technically correct in not placing a specific number value there, as averages vary depending on the speed limits in different jurisdictions. There are different speed limits for roads of the same class in different countries, states, provinces, etc.

2. Having said the above, sometimes a feature can give better user experience if we ignore what's technically correct, and implement what is more user friendly (even though it is imperfect ).

But the "averages," Marvin, don't relate to anything specific as far as I can tell. "Average" is a statistical term relating to a set of data. I doubt there is a data set behind what MSFT calls "average." If there is, what is it? If it is supposed to relate to speed limits for various segments, why not say that? Of course, there is the complication of differing speed limits for differing vehicle classes. And there is no correlation between average speeds actually driven (which varies depending on conditions such as weather, time of day, day of week, etc.) and applicable speed limits which tend to be rigidly set regardless of conditions.

I just downloaded the trial S&T 2011 - no GPS so i cannot evaluate it on the move, but ... first - HOW do you set "home"???? With a reg GPS (or nRoute GPS18) you always had "home" as a one touch

I am NOT impressed - I don't mind paying a few bucks more for something that would work better.

B-T-W, I TOO would prefer actual SPEEDS... you see, when towing, I really DO keep it to 60-62 MPH on the freeway

You can set home two ways. One is that you can save home as a location and replace the default startup map with a map that centers on your home location. The other is to use a Pin to mark your home and just open that pin to get to your home. As for showing the actual speed, that is what it does when you are driving and the GPS unit is working. It is always the speed traveled during the past SECOND of time since that is the way the GPS is measured. The estimated travel time, however, has to be based on the applied speed limits and your decision to adjust the settings in the program related to speed, if you choose to do that. I've found that those estimates are fairly accurate. They are NOT the actual speed limits as imposed by the various jurisdictions. They are a touch slower to account for stop signs, red lights, traffic loads, etc., and HAVE to be a guestimate. The actual GPS however uses the satellites to determine position and that in turn determines your speed and your elevation, and the program then shows both on the display.

The point is, you can't have an "average" with out a number. They ask you if you drive slower or faster than average, but with out a number, you don't really know what "average" is.
And the really stupid thing, is that the program knows... Buried in all that code "are" numbers for average. With out them the system could not calculate the drive time.
The problem is that people just keep buying what ever junk they produce, and then spend their time on these sites trying to work around, what should work out of the box.
I still use S&T 2002, just because it was the last one to list post offices.

It's not easy to put a number on it though. The same road class in one Canadian province may have a speed limit of 100 milometers per hour, and average of 95km/h. Another Canadian province may have a lower speed limit, and lower average for the very same road class. In the USA, the speed limit, and the associated average speed may also vary from state to state.

But I don't have inside knowledge of how this feature is implemented, so I'm just guessing.

P.S. I simply keep all the sliders at their minimum settings (-15% of the average speed). That gives me the best results.

Well in my 2004 it's easy, you just set the speeds you actually drive. I suspect, as in most things, the idea was implemented buy some one that probably doesn't drive. Or do much math )

BTW I know the "work around". It just constantly bugs me that I have to. I mean I've been on these things for nearly 30 years, and they just keep sloggin through one bad idea to the next.
I've always thought it would be nice to take a decent idea, and just keep improving it..
Any way, I know most roads in the US by heart now, so I'll stick with my 2004 until some one at MS wakes up.

You must have the 'patience on Job'. Waiting 8 years for a minor feature to reappear. Good luck in your quest.

Terry

If I had patience, I wouldn't be on this site )
I just don't tolerate programs that don't work.

Since 2004 I have tossed out S&T 2003,5,6,and now 2008.
2008 went in the trash because it will not recognize the GPS unite it shipped with, and I am not about to waste my time fixing MS's bad programming, I have much better things to do.

I NEVER buy the latest and greatest, because you are paying top dollar for the bugs that you hoped were fixed. Buying things a year or 2 back lets you see what may or may not have worked, and at a price cheap enough that the trash can is an easy choice )
I rant on these sights so that if they are actually listening, some thing some day might improve.

Hi Wally,

Streets & Trips has no concept of "Home" or "Here". So when you set up a route you always have to tell it where to start.

The advantage of that is that if you want to plan a route between any two arbitrary points it's way simpler than trying to fake out your navigation device to use a different starting point than "here".

The disadvantage is that when you just want to pick a destination and get a quick route to get there from "here" you have to tell Streets & Trips where to start.

Streets&Trips started life as a trip planning program and that's still the predominant use. Garmin's Mapsource and Basecamp programs are the same, e.g. they have no concept of "here".

You can create a pushpin for "Home" quite easily in Streets&Trips if that's useful. Just search the Help file for how to create pushpins. You will find that Streets&Trips has an extensive and very useful help file.

...ken...

...or, alternatively, enable your GPS tracking features in Streets & Trips first, then find/add a desired destination, and simply hit the F3-key. Microsoft added the F3-key to the program for a quick and easy (re)calculation of a route from your current GPS location.

Neat trick!! Thanks Marvin.

...ken...

Another non-upgrade... Very disappointing, not to mention irritating since S&T seems to be the main program available to the average person. It really makes me wonder if MS even cares about the product or it's customers.

Hi Deckie,

Welcome to the forum.

I bet that after reading at least a few of the hundreds of posts that have been posted here in the forum by Larry and Gladwin, both MS employees, you would no longer "wonder if MS even cares about the product or it's customers". Thanks to both, Larry & Gladwin, numerous new features have been implemented into new versions of the product in the past years. Unfortunately, these past couple of years have been tough on many business sectors, and even other competing products released only as map data updates, with no new features. Let's hope Streets & Trips 2012 will again start bringing users some exciting new features (not just new map data, even though map data seems to be always the #1 requested feature in all mapping products).

No, I haven't read all the posts, and perhaps I come across as a naysayer. I'm not, really. I'm sure Larry and Gladwin are good people and work hard to support us. I also think S&T is the best program of its kind.

That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a few more meaningful improvements than what we've been getting these past few years. But, that's just mho.

Frankly, at this point, I have lost track of what improvements are still needed. I would love to have the abillity to use 'via' points in a route, where NO stop is stuck in, but beyond that I have nothing I need added other than updates to both the POI content and the roads themselves.

Nice to have would be icons for missing things such as National Parks and sites that are NOT currently shown, such as the William Johnson House in Natchez, Mississippi and The President Clinton Home in Hope, Arkansas, and for churches and synagogues and religious buildings for other religions if we choose to add them to the maps... Right now that is missing totally.

I know some would also like to see that the speed indicator setting actually show a value. Perhaps +5%, -5% and so on rather than actual MPH or KPH speeds as the speed limits change all the time, but the over and under percentages do not.

I would also like to see web sites added to the various POI that are included, to simplify research for travelers, but that is a major space waster for others.

So what is it that the various users still want to see added?

I think the majority of these still apply: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/wish-list

...ken...

If I could vote for just one, I'd vote for the Calendar instead of the Day 1, Day 2, Day 3 suggested feature. I personally would likely never use it, but I know this feature has been requested by many, and a trip planning software should really have it.

Ken:

I followed the link you posted about what people would like to see added to S&T.
I didn't see this one so I would like to add that I would like to see the ability to have more than ONE trip on the individual S&T file; like you can do on Map Source.
Regards, Mike Flannigan

What would make S&T an outstanding product would be the inclusion of layers like CAD programs have where you can select what layer or layers you want to see at one time. Examples of use: 1. Primary route on one layer with route alternatives of other layers that can be shown or hidden at will. 2. Various types of POIs and their pushpins on different layers, e.g., fuel, restaurants, rest areas, etc. That way, for example, if I am looking for fuel options, I don't have to wade through a myriad (at that point) of irrelevant pushpins to find where I want to stop.

If all I want to see are gas stations, I click on find nearby places, turn off all of the choices, and then turn on gas stations only, and then set the distance from where I am that I am willing to look at. I do not need layers for that... it is really quick and simple to do it via that routine.

"Nearby places" doesn't work for me for a number of reasons. 1. Without a navigator: a. The text is too small b. The icons are too small 2. I try to look ahead, and not just hope for the best when I anticipate needing fuel, food, or rest. I like to know if I should stop now or if there are better options a little further along.

@RsH It's gotta be a Navteq bug. I have a Garmin nüvi which uses Navteq data. I was driving around Toronto last Fall with it and it kept sending me back on and off the 401 and 403 when it was absolutely unnecessary. Many times around North York I only needed to go a few miles, and it would try to get me onto the 401 when I could have just taken Sheppard all the way. I followed it once onto the 401 and then literally at the next exit (like 15-20 seconds later!) it instructed me to take the next ramp. So I just ignored it after that and the auto-reroute feature kicked in and it was like, "Oh, okay, I can play it like that, too". Too bad it can't remember my preferred alternate route and use that the next time I go in the same direction.

I'll offer a bet. Microsoft has decided to drop Streets and Trips but figured it could get people to upgrade one more time before they dropped it. How else can you explain the fact they tossed 2011 out the door - many months later than usual - without even minimal compatibility testing (PUSH PINS, ANYONE)?

How much are you willing to bet? If you lose, will you buy a copy of Microsoft Streets and Trips 2012 to every member of Laptop GPS World who will ask you for one?

I guess that would depend on what you offer if I am right?

Just downloaded and purchased the new 2011 Streets and Trips , but it took 4 hours to download at the campground [wifi] I am at. This was my 4th try to download over the last month and after looking in every Best Buy and Sam's Club going north, I decided to try the download one more time.

The price was right - $24.95 + tax, but during the last several minutes of the download, I was on my knees - praying it would not cancel out - and my prayers were answered!

Just downloaded the new Megafile - thanks to Larry and the crew at Microsoft for keeping this going.

I tried to convert one file at 1 a.m. this morning, but it looked like it was going to take awhile.

Tom

I have been using Streets & Trips for over 10 years now and this is the first I have seen your forum. I am truly impressed at the wealth of info available here, however as I recently bought the 2011 version to upgrade from my 2008 version I was shocked at the extensive changes in the format and operation. I only use S&T for route planning usually 6 month, 12,000 mile trips each summer. For driving I still use my Garmin StreetPilot 2720. (There are no problems with the Garmin, BTW.)

My chief complaint with the 2011 are the terrible pushpin markers! The pushpins on the 2008 were bright and clearly defined whereas these are fuzzy and of varying colors making them very hard to distinguish from one another. Is there any kind of fix for this?

I usually used the "backup" arrow frequently and found it handy but it looks like that is gone. Is there something that I don't know here?

I didn't like the change in the scan/select procedure but I guess I will learn to live with that.

I downloaded the MegaFile and it is incredible, but way too much info, is there an easier way to cut out some of the things I will never use?

Thanks for whatever help you can give me.

George

I can't help with the rest of your questions but you can make your own version of the POI Megafile. It's assembled from information that is freely available on the web, mostly from the companies themselves. If you search for something like "[company name] POI" or similar, you should get what you need.

Or you can register at POI Friend and/or POI Factory. They are free to use and contain zillions of POI files. It's pretty easy to search for the ones you want. Some of the files are built and maintained by individuals but many companies have taken to publishing and updating their own now. I am registered at both because each has some the other does not.

...ken...

One nice feature in S&T introduced in 2010 and is also in 2011 is the ability to hide/unhide pushpin sets. I suggest you look into this because, without out this functionality, all the Mega pushpins are completely unmanageable as it seems you have already discovered.

The other thing you can do is delete pushpins that are geographically irrelevant to your needs. If you do a search on this forum or look at the built-in Help file, you can pick up some tips on how to do that.

I find the best thing to do with the Mega file, however, is to use it as reference file only. That is, copy only those POI pushpins from the Mega file into some other file of your own (perhaps an SST file) to keep the pushpin population manageable on your own terms. Planning a 12,000-mile trip in the Mega file would surely result in some sort of overload either in your laptop or when you try to download it to your Garmin.

Thanks for the tips, Spades, I will be trying these out this week... so much to learn!!!

Regards, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ George

And thanks for your tips Ken, I will certainly look into making my own POI file. Sounds like a good idea...

Regards,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~George

Marvin,

It's is a search issue.

The street is on the map but you cannot search for it.

Thanks,

Suresh

Thanks for looking into it, and letting us know, Suresh. Hopefully Streets and Trips 2012 will correct this.

Hi thezafts -

The back and forward arrow buttons were removed after 2008. In current version - from the menu bar choose 'back' and 'forward'. Quickest method is to use shortcuts - Alt +left arrow for back, ALT + right arrow for forward.

Learn something new about S&T all the time from this site.

That's the reason I joined. Just downloaded the 60 trial of S&T 2011.

New poster here... and a new user of S&T. Problems.

I've just started a new job as a home inspector that takes me to about 200 homes each month in a 20,000 square mile area in Wyoming. Many of these homes are in newer subdivisions or out in the sticks, and I have a major problem with S&T finding these addresses and finding them correctly. I understand that it's a mapping problem.

On a typical day I'll enter 15 or 20 addresses into S&T (on my laptop) and use the routing function to get me to them in the most efficient order. I only have the street addresses and don't have ready access to any other method of locating them such as latitude/longitude coordinates.

Does anyone have any suggestions that could help me?

I sometimes use Mapquest to locate them, but I don't have internet access when I'm out in the field. Of course, I could spring for a few bucks and get it. I could get a GPS too. Or secondary mapping software. It's just a major pain in the patoot when I get 150 miles from home and discover that S&T has taken me on a wild goose chase. This sometimes results in an extra 300-mile trip to locate the property on another day, and I don't get reimbursed for mileage!

These are not rare occurrences. It happens with 10%-15% of my addresses.

I'm just wondering. Are there other mapping programs that would work better? Would GPS units work better? If so, are some better than others at finding new/remote addresses?

Thanks ahead of time for any suggestions.

No mapping software is up to date enough to locate new housing developments. I know Garmin offers quarterly updates for their products but they still run well behind reality. If you can find the address in MapQuest, why not pull the longitude and latitude from that and plug it into S&T before you leave the comfort of your internet connected location.

Terry

Uhh, cuz I didn't know I could? *LOL* Thanks much for the tip!

Of course I don't normally use Mapquest until I discover that there's a problem with the address in S&T when I'm in the field. I could double check each address before I leave home, but that would be pretty time-consuming too.

I was also wondering if there are various mapping programs that use different sources for their maps. If so, maybe a second mapping program would be helpful.

I'm pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff. I've just never had much use for it. I got one of the early GPS units that had maps on it, but my wife didn't like me reading it instead of watching the road. I sold it to save the marriage.

Pretty well all the mapping programs use the same NavTeq data. Some are updated more often than others but the source is the same.

A good modern Garmin GPS doesn't require you to read it though. You can enter the addresses before you leave, have it sort them for best order and it will determine a route and speak the necessary turns as you drive. Just like S&T but you can actually hear it! If you do consider that, get a model that has at least an 'M" prefix as map updates are included, such as the 2350LMT. However, for seeing where you are on a big screen, you can't beat a laptop and a mapping program such as S&T.

Terry

Can one import data to a Garmin GPS as is possible with S&T? That's one of the nice things about using S&T for me, because I can simply log onto my company's website, and it'll automatically create an address file that I can import into S&T, so I don't have to type out the addresses. However, if a Garmin would be more up-to-date with its addresses and be more accurate, I wouldn't mind....

Any idea how these mapping apps for the cell phones work? I had one on mine when I first bought it a couple years ago but never used it (mapping function) so had it removed. I think it was an extra $10/mo. over my current rate.

Incidentally, I'm not so sure you can enter coordinates into S&T. I was just comparing its features to those of Street Atlas, and it said Street Atlas would allow input of coordinates but S&T wouldn't. Unfortunately, SA isn't compatible with Windows 7, which of course is what I use.

Oops... looks like SA is now compatible with Windows 7.

I wonder if having that on my computer as a backup would help -- updated map information at different times throughout the year?

Tools - Find ( or CTRL+F) and pick the Lat/Long tab. Make sure the coordinate format of the source (MapQuest) and the destination (S&T) is the same. S&T will only accept decimal degrees or degrees/minutes/seconds settable from Tool - Options - Setting tab.

I don't know anything about cell phone mapping but would assume you could only select one address. Paying monthly to access mapping data that you don't know is any more accurate than what you have seems over the top to me.

Terry

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As a rule SA (using their own data source) is more problematic than S&T. Also, it requires a moderately steep learning curve and is very different from S&T in use.

Terry

If you have an iPad with a GPS built-in (what is called the 3G model, not the WiFi only model) you could try Navfree at the link below.

Navmii/Navfree Latest Satellite Navigation Software for iPhone, iPad and Android

You have to have a data connection to search for addresses so you would have to do it before you left the office unless you have a data plan on your iPad or you visit a place with free wifi while out and about such as Macdonalds. Create Favorites for each address when (if?) you find it.

You can download maps for the whole USA or just the state or states you are interested in.

Navfree doesn't have the ability to import addresses or to create multipoint itineraries.

If you're at A it can navigate to B.

It's supposed to be able navigate from B to C while you're at A but I've never worked out how to do it.

The reason I suggested it is because it uses Open Street Map maps which are created by "men in the street" (Political Correctness forces me to say "and women" but I bet it's mostly men who create the maps) as and when new roads are built. They are available overnight on the OSM website and every month or so from Navfree.

There is also PC Navigator Free which runs on a PC. It also uses OSM maps. It is a teeny bit complex to set up. It also updates its maps every month or so.

Navigator Free | mapFactor, s.r.o.

If you want to use the OSM maps directly you can do this using Garmin nRoute on your PC. To get this to work is also complex as you have to install Garmin Training Center and then Mapsource before you can install nRoute. More detailed instructions on how to find and install these apps are available on this website or PM me if you can't work it out.

nRoute is a bugger to use. No where near as friendly as Streets and Trips. Again read this site or PM me for assistance. Search for my name and nRoute for info on how to click and drag a route to multiple via points.

You can go to the OSM web site to get the maps for the area you are interested in. As I recall it's a bit complex.

OpenStreetMap

Or you can go to the website below and specify the area you want and after a day or so they will email you a link to a download that has the map areas you have requested.

Free worldwide routable Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap

As I recall, it comes in a nice neat executable package that is relatively easy to get into Mapsource and once it's in Mapsource you can see it in nRoute.

As much as I dislike the Apple way of doing things, ie lock everything up so tight you can't do anything that they don't want you to, it certainly makes it easy to set things up compared to the other options.

However, nRoute is fully featured mapping software so it's the best one to use. The others are really just toys. They will get you from your current location to a specified point. Only nRoute will let you set up a multi via point route.

WyoNewk:
I travel quite a bit and have to find a lot of addresses not yet in Streets. Nowhere near 200 a month.
I use both MapSource and S&Trips on my computer. By using both of them I can locate at least the approximate location. By making a "waypoint" in MapSource and naming it the address you're looking for, you can then download it to your GPS by the "Send to" menu. Does require more work, but it won't send you 3 hundred miles out of your way.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Mike Flannigan

WyoNewk,

If you decide to acquire a Garmin Nuvi be very very careful in your selection. Not long ago Garmin introduced their "Trip Planner" to the Nuvi. It does not work the same way routing does in S&T. Or the way it used to work in Garmin's Nuvi models released before the change.

Trip Planner will not create a single multi-point route for you. It will take multiple locations and chop the whole mess up into individual pieces. Each piece will take you to the "next" location. But you have to start it manually when you reach the "previous" location.

So if you get to the point of considering a Garmin Nuvi personal navigation device, be aware that some Nuvi models do "Multipoint Routing", some do "Trip Planning", some will only take you to one destination at a time. And some will not allow the downloading of routes to them. On those, you must select/enter the [single] destination directly on the device.

For something like your use, where you need multipoint, optimized routing, selecting a Garmin Nuvi model is not a straightforward process, to say the least.

...ken...

A couple of follow up points:

* Navfree works on iPhones and Android phones as well as iPads. I see in your post that you have a smartphone that you used to have pay mapping on. If it's an iPhone or uses the Android operating system you should be able to install Navfree. Once you've downloaded it you don't need an Internet connection for it to work though you do to search for locations.

You can use the built-in link to Google Search and hence Google Maps, which may have better mapping, to find an address or you can enter a lat/lon. It will display the location on the map and you can then select Route Here or Options, Add to Favorites. Even if there isn't a road shown at the location out in the boondocks (or "beyond the black stump" or "the back of beyond" in Aussie slang) it should get you close enough that you can ask a local for fine detail directions.

Black Stump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Outback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

* If you can't find an address and as you said you don't know how to find the lat/lon you can use the web site listed on my previous posting to convert an address to a lat/lon. You could then use the lat/lon in your satnav software of choice to see where the closest marked roads are.

http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/4412-batch-conversions-address-latitude-longitude-forward-geocoding

Another thought on how to find locations in the middle of nowhere:

Phone the local authority that charges rates and taxes for the property and ask them for the lat/lon coords. They will have tax maps or a database that has that info. Hopefully, the dreaded "privacy" won't get in the way as the location of an address should be public info even if the name of the person who lives there isn't.

Then enter the lat/lon into Google Maps and switch to satellite view. Even if it doesn't have the road marked you should be able to see the road or track that connects the location to a marked road. Left click on the magnifying glass under the scale bar on the left hand side and then right click on the the map at the desired intersection and select Drop LatLng Marker. Click, drag to highlight lat/lon, copy and paste into satnav software (preferably, S&T because that's what you have and it's the easiest to use) and it will take you to the intersection or you can create a via point (Garmin's term because I can't remember what they're called in S&T - waypoint? - no a stop) and include that in your day's route.

Take a screen print from Google Maps of the road or track that leads to your location if it has cross or side roads that you may get lost at.

In S&T you could use the drawing tools on the Drawing Toolbar, line and or fluro pen, to draw a mudmap of the road or track from the known intersection to the location.

What is a mud map? - Yahoo!7 Answers

Mud Map - home

My favourite mudmap.



While looking for the mudmap of Oz I found this caption competition on the same website:



And the winner is ...

The PTI felt a moment’s guilt for not telling the boys the park-brake on the Rover was on. It soon passed ...
Tpr Ryan Kadwell,
161 Recce Sqn

Army newspaper staff also liked:

Working dog handlers were having a little trouble with their new dog ‘Princess’.
AC/R Stewart Watkins, 23 Sqn

An example of how not to use the chain of command.
Sig Michael Henry, LSF Sig Sqn

How the hell do you bog a Leopard tank?
A.C. Asbury, Queensland

Just a thorny note here. I've used Streets & Trips since 2002, and now use mostly the 2004 version.
I've owned the 2005, 06, and 08 and all went in the trash.
Yes MS does not support it's software, so what else is new.
It does not listen to users, it's too big for that.

The only improvement I've seen in 10 years is a few new streets added. This does not even come close to all they have screwed up, and useful things deleted.

My last try, 2008 had the new register your PC hassle crap.
I tossed it out because the thing would not work with it's included GPS receiver ????
As you have undoubtedly read many times in these pages, if MS can't get their stuff to work, on their own operating systems, what's the use.
I come on here now and then just to be reminded not to waste the money.
After 30+ years on the road, and as a design/product consultant, I can think of many things that could put S&T on top, but they'd have to pay me for that.
KRASH

Ken:
Thanks for that reminder. I haven't been able to download "routes" for so long I have forgotten about it.
I work the trip out, on the computer, in MapSource so I can name/# them to find easily in the GPS favorites folder. As you know it's a lot quicker and easier to do than trying to do them on the GPS.
I just download waypoints to the favorites folder and use the "Where to" for each step of the route.
Regards,
Mike