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Review: Microsoft Streets and Trips
flannigan
RSH:
I decided it would be easier for me to get the waypoints to MapSource and then to the GPS the way I have been doing it for the last 20 + years. If the "export" gave me the ability to transfer to my desktop and then "open" with MapSource it would have saved me the extral steps I have to go through the old way. I hope I made this clear.
Thanks for your efforts.
Mike Flannigan
Ken in Regina
Mike, your screenshot shows that Mapsource is the default program for .GPX files and tried to open it.

Mapsource and Basecamp are very picky about the format of those files. When they start to open them they run them through a "validator" routine. Even a minor error will cause the file to be rejected.

Your screenshot shows that Windows sent the file to Mapsource which tried to validate it but rejected it due to something it did not like in the file. It is likely something very minor. but as I said, the Garmin programs are really picky.

So the function you want is there and working just like you want it to. But Streets is doing some small thing in the file that Mapsource doesn't like.

...ken...
Marvin Hlavac
Here's a sample route export from ST2013 to .gpx Bob asked for. I think there's been no change from the previous version. Would this shed light on Mike's issue?

Code:
<rte>
    <rtept lat="43.6419480387121" lon="-79.3745990563184">
        <name>Captain John's Harbour Boat</name>
        <time>Invalid DateTime-05:00</time>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="43.6446973029524" lon="-79.3849947117269">
        <name>Intercontinental-Toronto Centre</name>
        <time>Invalid DateTime-05:00</time>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="43.6439240723848" lon="-79.3886890355498">
        <name>CN Tower</name>
        <time>Invalid DateTime-05:00</time>
    </rtept>
</rte>
flannigan
Ken: Thanks for that explanation. Makes sense, even to me - I'm satisfied with my old way. Just got through finishing a trip from St. Louis to Princeton, NJ, to JFK library in Massachusetts & back to St Louis. All waypoints in MapSource.
Thanks again.
Mike
flannigan
I have found an issue in 2013 that will probably make me stay with 2011.
The toolbar icons in 2011 are color coded. The toolbar icons in 2013 are plain white on black and much harder to find.
I found another issue with "Nearby Places" in 2013. Some of them are missing ie. banks (Chase) in Princeton, NJ that are in 2011. I checked with Chase' site and the branch is still there. It's not a deal breaker, but I can't understand why it was taken out. It makes me wonder if there aren't other things missing also. I'm going to try to find other reasons to go to 2013.
Mike Flannigan
Attached Images
s-t-2011-toolbar-icons.jpg   s-t-2013-toolbar-icons.jpg  
RsH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Hlavac
Here's a sample route export from ST2013 to .gpx Bob asked for. I think there's been no change from the previous version. Would this shed light on Mike's issue?

Code:
<rte>
    <rtept lat="43.6419480387121" lon="-79.3745990563184">
        <name>Captain John's Harbour Boat</name>
        <time>Invalid DateTime-05:00</time>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="43.6446973029524" lon="-79.3849947117269">
        <name>Intercontinental-Toronto Centre</name>
        <time>Invalid DateTime-05:00</time>
    </rtept>
    <rtept lat="43.6439240723848" lon="-79.3886890355498">
        <name>CN Tower</name>
        <time>Invalid DateTime-05:00</time>
    </rtept>
</rte>
You are showing points as route points, while I am looking for the actual track taken with the record showing the data per second from the satellites... as below. What is the GPS doing when it is recording the data as you actually are driving?

That should look like the following, and if it is missing the time data confirms that the track is without time records, so useless for calculating speed traveled or anything else that would be meaningful about the trip, such as mph or kph traveled, and so on. It should typically show:

<trkpt lon="-78.3460933" lat="44.5560583">
<time>2012-06-05T12:37:52.068Z</time>
<name>Position 2</name>
<hdop>4.698</hdop>
<vdop>4.045</vdop>
<pdop>6.2</pdop>
<extensions>
<nmea:speed>2.8</nmea:speed>
</extensions>
</trkpt>
<trkpt lon="-78.3461116" lat="44.5560816">
<time>2012-06-05T12:37:53.068Z</time>
<name>Position 3</name>
<hdop>4.697</hdop>
<vdop>4.046</vdop>
<pdop>6.199</pdop>
<extensions>
<nmea:speed>1.7</nmea:speed>
</extensions>
</trkpt>
SpadesFlush
I find that tick-by-tick route history data showing time stamp, elevation, latitude, and longitude can be revealed by opening a GPX file (with a GPS trail) in Excel. It seems, however, that the ticks are only created when the receiver is moving. In other words, there will be no ticks if your vehicle is stopped such as at a traffic light.
Marvin Hlavac
The example I posted above wasn't created from a GPS trail. I simply selected three random places on the map, created a route, and then exported it into a .gpx file.

I personally almost never use .gpx files, so my knowledge of them is very limited. But based on what Bob (RsH) has been saying ever since GPX Export/Import was introduces a couple of versions ago, there seems to be something wrong with it related to the time.

Bob, what would you expect to see in my example above instead of the following line:

Code:
<time>Invalid DateTime-05:00</time>
SpadesFlush
It does seem a bit retrograde to make the changes
Quote:
The toolbar icons in 2011 are color coded. The toolbar icons in 2013 are plain white on black and much harder to find.
Mike describes. Maybe it is supposed to work on an 8-bit Commodore from 1984.
SpadesFlush
Marvin, a GPX file will contain data points for routes, pushpins, and GPS trails, to the extent they are in the original EST file from which the GPX file was created and will all be visible if you open the GPX file in Excel.
tcassidy
As I recall, S&T gpx files never had that information. I can't see how that would affect the results in MapSource though as it would recalculate the route and fill in all the time things based on its own calculations.

Terry
Ken in Regina
Terry, you are conflating two unrelated issues.

1. Has 2013 corrected the omission of time stamps from the track information when it exports to .GPX file? Have not seen an answer yet. Nor a sample file as was requested.

2. Why does Garmin Mapsource pop an error when asked to open a .GPX file exported from Streets 2013? My answer to Mike is speculation but likely correct. E.g. Garmin programs do run the XML data through a validator when opening a .GPX file. Streets might be putting something in the file in a format that is violating the very strict rules Mapsource insists on before it will open the file.

The only way to test #2 is to run a sample export from Streets through the online validator that Garmin support techs recommend for testing such things.

Alternatively you can run one of Streets export files through the routeconverter program mentioned above. If the issue is minor, that might fix it and make it acceptable to Mapsource.

I can't help with any of that. I am writing this on my phone from a shopping mall hundreds of miles from home while my wife gets a shopping fix.

...ken...
SpadesFlush
Quote:
Has 2013 corrected the omission of time stamps from the track information when it exports to .GPX file? Have not seen an answer yet.
What ommission is that? Trail time stamps are in S&T2010 and 2011 are in their GPX exported files.
Marvin Hlavac
We have to look up the thread from a couple of years ago where RsH described the GPX related issues in detail.
RsH
Last year after testing 2011 and finding the same issue I am discussing now, I was promised a free copy of the next version by Microsoft, which I suspect they will have forgotten to provide to me once more [so far I have NOT received a free key or anything else for the 2013 version of the program from, them, nor any email].

They received quite a bit of documentation from me on the GPS issues... and their handling of a valid GPX file on import into Streets and Trips, where they definitely did NOT import the time information so that meaningful review of the track could be done in Streets and Trips. I suspect, however, that they have not changed anything when it comes to this part of the use of the program... when I import a GPX file INTO Streets and Trips to review the route in detail and check timing and speeds against their computations of expected speeds, etc.

[Marvin, for the record I will wait patiently for that 'free' copy [or working activation key] from the powers that be at Microsoft re Streets and Trips. I have gotten used to their promising the free copy and ignoring that promise a year later, as if I even still remembered where I wrote down the name of the individual who made the promise. I almost expect to once more be told that the person was not authorized to make that promise, even if it was made.]
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