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Review: Microsoft Streets and Trips
SteveJonesMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
I have no idea where the exits are you are referencing.
I'm talking about 17 northbound from Phoenix to Flagstaff, just like you are. The problem is between exits 268 to 278. If you zoom in to the 18 mile range or tighter you can see the exit numbers. Northbound routing on 17 works fine north of exit 278, and south of exit 268.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
...the error is with S&T, not Navteq.
Could be, but that seems unlikely to me and I can't see that we have any evidence to reach that conclusion. Like I said, the Navteq data used in S&T is a snapshot taken at one point in time. Data problems come and go in dynamic data such as theirs.

Here's a hypothetical situation:

Quote:
In May 2012 the Navteq data in the affected area was updated to reflect the results of a road construction project that changed something about that section of road. The change was somehow miscoded, and resulted in an error.

In June 2012 Navteg licensed a snapshot of their data to Microsoft for use in S&T 2013.

In July 2012 somebody at Navteq noticed and fixed the data problem for that section of road.
Or maybe there was a problems with the process by which the data was moved from the Navteq world to the S&T world.

Who knows. But the above type of scenario seems much more likely to me than the possibility that the S&T developers found a way to create a bug in how they use Navteq data to do routing which only affects about .00001% of the roads covered in S&T.

But again, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that the responsibility for figuring it out rests with Microsoft, not their customers. They absolutely should not refer us to Navteq even if that turns out to be the root of the problem.
Dutchie
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
If you are really interested, the problem in S&T 2013 appears to be with the northbound lane of I17 between approximately 34.35540N 112.11042W and 34.37127N 112.10961W. You can't put a stop northbound there so the section must be missing from the database.

Terry
In the 2011 version this stretch of Interstate I-17 showed in brown color (under construction).
Tireman9
Streets is advertised for RV owners but Ver 2010 directs us down a couple of dirt roads. It does not allow avoid dirt roads and setting the route to fastest does not work either unless you know beforehand which roads to avoid.

Streets does leave off some roads which are unpaved. So I guess if you have a 4x4 you can't plan on having the shortest route option work with Streets either.
Sabot
Had MS ST prior versions to 2013 version. Just tried 2013 v and tried to import .gbx file into Map Source. Will not work. Did the delete time zone trick and Map Source will import .gbx. Guess I will pass on 2013 because this seems to have been a problem in prior versions of MS ST and it still has not been fixed. Looks like MS ST will not be worth the money they want for an application that they know has had complaints about and have not fixed it yet. This is great site for help info. Thanks for the time zone trick, it really does work, but doing that to about 150 or so files is just my idea of having fun.
Newbee
I can't help wonder if S&T 2013 will be the end of of the mapping program for Microsoft. There is Bing Maps and of course Google. I can't really see them continuing support for this program.
tcassidy
We thought the same thing for several versions now. We just live in hope! Maybe the next version will be touch friendly too.

Terry
My Point...Exactly
Quote:
I can't really see them continuing support for this program.
And yet there still isn't a mapping tool out there, online or off, that can perform like S&T and its big brother MapPoint.
Confused
We travel by RV all over North America including Canada and as far south in Mexico as we can go. Using any kind of online mapping is simply not an option for us. Online is useless to us. We NEED a program that is always there in our computer. S&T does more than any other program we have seen to help us find our way. If it does not pay MS to keep it up there would be no reason for them to keep it up - and not buying it tells them it is not worth keeping it up. Every time a new version comes out they make changes and add new roads and lots of other stuff which makes it well worth the small amount we have to invest to get a new one. Without user support they will surely discontinue it and we will all be left high and dry. As more and more of the computer world goes to online access only we will all find ourselves stuck as the internet will probably never reach every area of the globe we travel. And updates are essential to all of us.
Newbee
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Point...Exactly
And yet there still isn't a mapping tool out there, online or off, that can perform like S&T and its big brother MapPoint.
Hmm...I guess it depends on what one uses S&Ts for. Google Earth is quite powerful. Google maps is always being updated (more often in a bad way but the data is as current as long as the volunteers like you and me continue to update it).

Frankly, I now use my older version of S&Ts to estimate my trip costs. Avoiding an area is one of it's best features I find now. I don't like the speed limit sliders, I alway prefered the old style of manually entering my average speed. Garmin Mapsource and Base Camp allow the same if you're a Garmin user.

In general, it's rather sad but GPS devices aside from smartphones are taking a big hit now that many people are adding GPS nav systems in their vehicles however, people don't realize the software is quite dated, the add-on is pricey, and it's very expensive to update. I will always have a stand-alone GPS. I will continue to buy one.

For desktop route planning, I can't see much benefit in keeping S&T alive given what's available now online and for free. I hope I am wrong in my belief, but only time will tell.
Ken in Regina
It should be pointed out that although Garmin's desktop software is free it's not useful without maps which are not.
My Point...Exactly
Quote:
For desktop route planning, I can't see much benefit in keeping S&T alive given what's available now online and for free. I hope I am wrong in my belief, but only time will tell.
No doubt that at some point - online services will rival S&T and MapPoint. Personally, I believe there is a need for a web hosted as well as off line version. I'd love to see a tight integration between S&T/MapPoint and Bing Maps...but it's not there.

The limitations of online maps are still too great for me to rely on.

For instance, I'll import 30,000 prospects into the map to create territories across the U.S., and then use analysis tools to search for prospects and services within a defined area and along the route.

Executing advanced searches like this one: Search along a segment of your route aren't available with the online maps....yet is a breeze for this $40ish software.

Yes - S&T and MapPoint are Islands of automation. I admit I execute detailed analysis on these tools, and then export the RESULTS to the 'free' online map so I can share the data with the enterprise or view points on my phone for navigation.

But yeah - I still need the laptop software for the analysis.

Maybe someday, my S&T and MapPoint results will be mirrored on my paid Bing Maps account. Maybe ; )

If S&T and MapPoint go away - then I need to buy more expensive software that's gonna be a pain to learn to continue to do what I easily do today. I don't know if that's progress!
t923347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken in Regina
It should be pointed out that although Garmin's desktop software is free it's not useful without maps which are not.
Using Basecamp you don't need to purchase maps to use it. If you have a Garmin GPS ,like the Nuvi, just attach it to your computer and Basecamp is quite happy to use those maps. Also when, and if, you update the maps on your GPS there will be an option to install a copy of those maps on your computer. At that point you will not need to have your GPS attached to the computer to use Basecamp.
Ken in Regina
That is all correct but it doesn't change the fact that the maps are not free. It's just a way to use some maps that you paid Garmin for a different way.

But I did misspeak. OpenStreetMaps maps are free if you want to figure out how to get them onto the computer. Easy for some; not so easy for others.
t923347
Well your not buying the maps for Basecamp, they come with the GPS. But I guess you could argue that the GPS would cost less if it came with no maps..

The point I was making was that if you have a Garmin GPS you can use Basecamp with no additional cost for maps. Also most Nuvi models now are sold as LM (lifetime maps) or LMT (lifetime maps and traffic) models with the LM models adding no more than $30 to the price of the unit. So, for about the price of buying S&T, you could use Basecamp and update the maps for it on your computer and on the device at no extra cost for the life of the unit if it was an LM or LMT model.
Confused
We have the new NUVI 2757LM and find it a huge difference from previous Garmins. But S&T still has the most versatility in our situation and also the large screen to work on. Maybe it is just that I have not done as much with Garmin stuff as I have with S&T but I seem to be able to do so much more with S&T. I guess it depends on where you are going and what you are doing. Since we travel almost all the time all over all of North America we need every tool we can find. We use both S&T and the 2757 and find they both have benefits.

But the whole idea of having to go online to get maps and travel info as we go down the road will probably never work for us unless internet is made available for free absolutely everywhere. We have to use limited internet service (so far) so we pay for every MB we use - and many areas just do not have it.

I can think of a great many things MS can do to improve S&T and I hope they do - but I have my doubts since it is probably not a huge money maker and with more and more people using online devices their market share is probably declining.

We are fortunate to have a computer built into the dash of our RV with a 15" monitor so we can see everything in great detail. I mount the NUVI just above that so we can see both. If need-be we have a 37" TV monitor up above the windshield I have run a VGA cable to so we can use that too (though we almost never do).

Then there are things like the "Mega File" (most of the data comes from RVers) and things like that - and all the almost secret little things we learn about S&T over time that just makes it an amazing tool to work with - once to figure out the Tips & Tricks that can be done with it. For the price it is a steal.
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