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How often does Streets & Trips update the maps?
petetrucker379
How often does Microsoft Streets and Trips update the maps?

I ran down US 78 in Alabama the other evening and S&T 2008 stills shows the highway not finished from Winfield Al. to Jasper, Al. and I know from experience that that section of road has been completed for at least 3 years now. I was pleasently surprised to see that Al. finally got the highway done to about 11 miles from Birmingham, maybe they'll get the rest finished by the time I retire in another 20 years.

I also had the same problem on Al. hwy 157 from Cullman, Al. to almost all the way to Muscle Shoals, Al. but that section of road hasn't been 4 lane for too long.

Same thing happened to me again today in Ohio in US 30 from Beaver Dam to Upper Sandusky. The old highway is about 1/4 mile north of the new highway and the GPS kept trying to get me on the old route.

I finally had to turn of the routing, all I need in my life is another female telling me where to go!
Ken in Regina
Microsoft doesn't update the map data. They acquire the map data from a company called Navteq. Navteq doesn't create the data. They acquire the data from a variety of sources. Outside of major population areas and heavily travelled corridors they don't seem to have very good sources for their data.

Cheer up. Up here in the Great White North it's much worse.

...ken...
Marvin Hlavac
Few years ago Pocket GPS World, (no connection to Laptop GPS World ), published an excellent three page long article describing in detail how map data is being collected by Navteq. This is a must read for anyone interested in this topic. Here's a link to the page # 1 (read all three pages, though): NAVTEQ Part 1/3

In my experience, when a new street is built, it takes two and a half to three years (in most cases) for the same street to appear in Streets & Trips (or other programs). On line maps may have the new street earlier. The printed maps in your local stores will have the new street first, but printed maps do not offer as many features as software maps.
edh
I was pleasantly surprised at the accuracy of both Streets and Trips and iGuidance, even though I live in the same great white north as Ken.

Even a small slough at the side of HWY #1, no more than 50yd x 100yd, about two Kilometers east of Calgary is shown.

It didn't show the tractor parked in the same field though, Hmmm, maybe I'll send them a note. It's disappointing to hear that they are behind on new developments. Old critters like me need all the help we can get. There's little rhyme or reason to the way most new area's are numbered or named.
Ken in Regina
Hi Ed,

Two kilometres out of town is hardly seriously "outside of major population areas" (to quote myself). You will find that the Navteq maps are good in Edmonton, Calgary, along the Transcanada hiway corridor, along the #2 hiway corridor and across the Yellowhead hiway corridor. Although don't count on a lot of detail in many of the smaller centres even along those corridors.

Outside of those areas (okay, farther than 2km outside) it's a crapshoot.

Check an Alberta atlas or roadmap that shows the Red Deer river accurately. Now pull up the area around Gleniffer Lake on Streets & Trips and see the difference. ...

... Ooops, you won't see Gleniffer Lake on S&T.

Look south of Spruce View on Hiway 54 and see if you can even find the river without zooming all the way out. At any zoom level that gives you detail it simply disappears. You will see all the range roads ending for no apparent reason but there is otherwise no sign of the river.

DMTI is another company that, like Navteq and TeleAtlas, compiles maps for various industries. They make the Metroguide Canada product for Garmin. Check this link and you should see the area I'm talking about. Compare it to that area in S&T to see what I'm talking about.

Now zoom in on the little community of Spruce View on hiway 54 in S&T, then check this link on the Garmin map viewer. Note that even though the Metroguide Canada assembled by DMTI is much older than S&T 2008, it has the street numbers. You will this sort of difference in detail everywhere.

Now the Gleniffer Lake example isn't a really good example either. The Dickson Dam that creates the Gleniffer Lake has been there for years and years. Even though the Metroguide Canada map shows the Red Deer River it still doesn't show the dam or the road across it. But it's also many years older than the Navteq product in S&T 2008. Garmin has not issued an update to Metroguide Canada for at least four years.

I can show you lots of other examples to illustrate the huge differences between Navteq's data and DMTI's data.

Unfortunately because there hasn't been an update from Garmin to the Metroguide Canada product since I bought it I can't tell how much more up to date it might or might not be on hiway changes, new subdivisions and such.

Just for one more example of how bad Navteq's data is, check this link in Castlegar. Pull up the same view in S&T. Take a look at how crudely the river and the islands at the junction of the Kootenay and Columbia rivers are rendered. (Well, according to Navteq there are no islands there.) And check the difference in detail in street naming and other stuff in and around Castlegar.

What the heck, let's do one more. Fernie has a pretty sizable river running through it. Check this link for Fernie. Now pull up the same area in S&T. ....Oops, no river at all.

For the record, this isn't a criticism of Microsoft Streets & Trips. It's just to illustrate how poor the overall coverage of Navteq's "North American" product really is. People who live in major population areas and never leave them, or travel only on major hiways between major centres will be generally happy with the product. Anyone who, like me, likes to avoid such areas will constantly be finding deficiencies like this.

I'm fortunate that I have an alternative and something else to compare to. Now if Garmin would just update the darn thing.

...ken...
Marvin Hlavac
Ken, if my memory serves me correctly, several years ago even Microsoft used DMTI as one of its map data providers for Streets & Trips. Unfortunately last few versions of S&T have no longer incorporated any data by DMTI Spatial. To my knowledge this only affects Canada. And you are absolutely correct, Ken, you can find many examples of smaller remote towns in Canada for example missing street names completely, yet Garmin products, which do use DMTI (or Navteq & DMTI), do have street names for all these smaller towns.
edh
Hi ken,,Marvin.
I have noticed that my cottage street is not named, even though both S&T and iG show the street without a name. I did search for some way of letting them know the name of my street unsuccessfully.
I guess they need a more dependable source than me.
Is there a way of letting them know?

Ed
Ken in Regina
Here's the link to Navteq's Map Reporter page. That's the place to report for errors in maps that Navteq provides the data for. Microsoft and iGuidance will just forward any reports to them anyway.

http://mapreporter.navteq.com/dur-web-external/secured/submitDur.do?userType=CONSUMER&language=en

Just for clarification for anyone reading this who aren't familiar with the Garmin stuff, they make a "North American" product called City Navigator North America. They update this product annually. I have version 8 and it is virtually identical to my Streets & Trips 2008. That's no surprise because both are based on Navteq data.

Garmin also make a product called Metroguide Canada. It is based on DMTI's data. This one hasn't been updated in a few years. I'm hoping we'll get one this year.

I have both of the Garmin map products I mentioned as well as S&T 2008. Plus Garmin's Canadian topos. ....... Man, I sure don't have any excuse for getting lost.

...ken...
Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Hlavac
Ken, if my memory serves me correctly, several years ago even Microsoft used DMTI as one of its map data providers for Streets & Trips. Unfortunately last few versions of S&T have no longer incorporated any data by DMTI Spatial. To my knowledge this only affects Canada. And you are absolutely correct, Ken, you can find many examples of smaller remote towns in Canada for example missing street names completely, yet Garmin products, which do use DMTI (or Navteq & DMTI), do have street names for all these smaller towns.
Hi Marvin,

A couple of comments. I have had feedback from American users of map products based on the Navteq data that indicates exactly the same problems exist in the US portion of the "North American" map products. That is, once you get into areas away from major population centres the data gets increasingly poorer. This is, for obvious reasons, more apparent in the west and southwest. And don't get the Alaskans going!!!

I assure you that the problem is not limited to "smaller remote" towns. You can look in small towns along major corridors that are also pretty sketchy when it comes to missing street names, parts of the street grid and major geographical features like rivers and lakes and parks. It doesn't have to be remote to be overlooked by Navteq's data collectors.

...ken...
Marvin Hlavac
Ken, what I meant to say was that DMTI Spatial covers only Canada. I don't think DMTI has any data outside Canada. It is excellent that Garmin uses DMTI's data, and it is unfortunate that Microsoft few years ago discontinued using DMTI Spatial as one of its data providers for Streets & Trips.
Ken in Regina
Sorry, Marvin. Yes, I misunderstood. DMTI just covers Canada, and covers it very well. I wish I could just order updated maps directly from them for my Garmin or S&T.

...ken...
Marvin Hlavac
Ken, you mentioned the Canadian Metro Guide hasn't been updated in years. Why not buy a new City Navigator North America 2008? I may be asking a silly question, I'm not familiar with all the various Garmin products - perhaps there is a big price difference, or some other reason for not going that route. But if it's just the DMTI data you are after, then I believe you could likely find in City Navigator what you need. When you use the online map viewer at Garmin website, select City Navigator, and then zoom closer to any location in Canada (I just tried the Toronto area). You will see credits given to both Navteq and DMTI.
Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Hlavac
Ken, you mentioned the Canadian Metro Guide hasn't been updated in years. Why not buy a new City Navigator North America 2008? I may be asking a silly question, I'm not familiar with all the various Garmin products - perhaps there is a big price difference, or some other reason for not going that route. But if it's just the DMTI data you are after, then I believe you could likely find in City Navigator what you need. When you use the online map viewer at Garmin website, select City Navigator, and then zoom closer to any location in Canada (I just tried the Toronto area). You will see credits given to both Navteq and DMTI.
I'll take a look at it, Marvin. I've used the Garmin map viewer many times, so I'm used to it. In fact that's where the links point when I was illustrating the deficiencies of Navteq's data to edh a little earlier in this thread.

I wasn't aware that CNNA 2008 also had DMTI data in it. Previous versions do not. I have CNNA v8, which is the latest before the 2008 version, and it still has all the problems I illustrated to edh. I have had no feedback from CNNA 2008 Canadian users that anything has improved as dramatically as you would expect from inclusion of DMTI data.

I will hustle off and take a look in CNNA 2008 at some of the places I use as benchmarks and see if they have been cleaned up or not.

...ken...
Marvin Hlavac
Yes, please do check it out, and let us know. It may indicate how the map data (for Canada) in the upcoming Garmin Mobile PC will likely compare to the existing quality of maps in Streets & Trips (and other Navteq-only products).
Ken in Regina
I see what you mean about the mention of DMTI in the CNNA 2008 product display on Garmin's map viewer. So now I'm really puzzled because I see no evidence of any DMTI data. I checked all the places I usually check to see if there is any point in upgrading and it's all exactly as deficient as it is in CNNA v8. I can't see any changes from v8.

Perhaps the mention of DMTI might be an overlay from the map viewer itself rather than the underlying map data? There is no mention of copyright for DMTI whereas there is specific copyright mentioned for Navteq (2006). I'm taking it from that that there is no DMTI data in that map product or Garmin would surely have also included copyright mention for them.

Darn, I had my hopes up there for a couple of minutes.

...ken...
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