Will Microsoft Streets and Trips 2010 read files saved in version 2007?

Thanks in advance.

From what I have read here on the forum from others is that newer versions of S&T will generally read older versions' files. However, generally older versions will not read newer versions' files. So, 2010 will likely read 2007 files. But, 2007 will not likely read 2010 files. The great experts here on the forum will surely give you a more precise answer. They're great and gracious in sharing their knowledge.

I don't know if anyone has checked the backwards compatibility closely in the new version yet. In 2009 we found some issues with pushpin symbols, for instance.

In any case, make sure you save backup copies of your older version files and then only work with a copy in 2010 until you are satisfied that everything comes across properly, or at least that you're okay with whatever came across.

...ken...

t1dunn - you got it right.
I'll just add that 2007 will not read 2008,2009 or 2010 files.

Kathlene - welcome to laptopgpsworld! Keep the questions coming. We're ready for them.

Thank you for responses and the welcome. You bet I'll be searching the fourm alot and will have lots of questions.
I just got into Geocaching a month or so ago and plan on picking the program up in a day or so.
I also use S&T to make maps for the 3-day breast cancer event here in San Diego. It's that time of year, event is next month.
Thanks again!!

Kathlene,

If you read an 'old' route in 2010 and then save it, it will be converted to the newer format and will not then be readable using the 'old' version of S&T in which it was created.

If this would be a problem, you may want to think about running both S&T 2007 AND S&T 2010 on your computer. I found that I could install 2010 without writing over 2007 if I chose to do the installation into a completely different folder.

2010 is better than 2007 (IMHO) but there might be reasons to preserve a route in the 'old' format. For instance, if you are sharing it with others who does not have 2010, you don't want to send them an EST file they won't be able to open.

It might get confusing, however, to be able to run both versions on the same computer although they are easily distinguishable on the screen.

I went and got what I thought was the 2010 version as there was no dates on the box. and it looked like the boxe online. Now I have taken a closer look at the boxes online and the 2009 and 2010 looks exactly the same.
I went to install it and I am getting a box for the 'wizard to guide' me through the '2009' version.
Help!!!
how does one tell if someone switch the cd's in the box, or if I bought the 2009 version.

I'm bothered now if the sales person gave me the 2009 after asking for the 2010 especially since it cost $70

doh looked at receipt and it states 2009. Darn them, LOL

how does one tell it is 2010?
and being it is the same cost, should I take it back and try and find the 2010 as this was the very last box with gps locater at this particular store.
Can I assume, if I use install this 2009, it will NOT read the 2010?

I just spoke to a sales rep she has a box withOUT GPS that states on a sticker "has new 2010 maps..." I may have to get that one without the GPS due to the fact that she is allowing the return/exchange.
So where does one get a GPS, and which GPS for the USB/Laptop?
I was looking forward to using it with geocaching.

man I really needed this installed this weekend. I've got maps to make for the breast cancer 3-day for all of us volunteers that crew the route

In view of the emergency nature of your situation, I recommend you go on to the Microsoft site and download a trial version of 2010. It is full featured and will be good for 60 days. If the box you bought comes with a GPS receiver, you can use that with 2010 (or any version).

That will give you time to sort out your problem with the 2009 version.

Good luck!

Thanks, I did download from the web and will exchange the one I got for the only copy of 2010 without GPS receiver that they have left at the store. Will I be able to just buy the receiver now, somewhere?

Mahalo nui loa Ken,
I downloaded it and now have a new problem, lol. I opened up the program, pulled up one of my saved files from version 2004. I was trying out the search feature on an address in my route (3545 Del Mar Heights RD). You can see in the search box, top left, highlighted in blue where I typed it in. It sure enough came up with the address location...

but now it has added the address in the boxes for most of all my push pin boxes. Am currently in search mode for forum help as to why this occurred and now how to remove it from my text boxes.
I've attached a 'print screen' so you can see what I mean.
Is there a forum just for MS S&T 2010, so that I don't over load your Laptop GPS World, since I am assuming this had nothing to do with the GPS stuff.

Attached Images

delmarheightrd.jpg (75.6 KB)

Hi Kathlene,

Regarding the forum. There may be others but this one is the best. There are 1000's of people here who use S&T and love to help others and share information. Keep your questions coming.

Now, how the heck did you get your searched address added to all the puphpin balloons? That is very odd. Can you open up the 2004 file again and reproduce the behavior?

Larry

Kathlene,

When Larry says: "...reproduce the behaviour" he means can you please see if you can make it happen again AND take notes of each step so you can take us step by step through what you did to get it that way. It may be a genuine bug you have uncovered or it may be that you got a wrong step that we can help correct.

For instance, is it possible that you had your pushpin set selected at the time you accepted the search results?

...ken...

Thanks for the interpretation/translation Ken!

Pending Kathlene's response, I guess that she first imported some addresses from a spreadsheet or something. Note that all except for one of the flags (the one with her address) has a specific title. Then, she created a route from the pushpin set. You can see a Stop or two and a fragment of a blue route line under the forest of flags. Finally, she did a search for the highlighted address and made that a pushpin, too. That pushpin does not seem to be tied into the route but it is impossible to tell at this zoom level.

Kathlene needs to zoom in to a level that you can separate the pushpin flags enough so that you can see what is going on with the route. She may just need to add this new pushpin with its searched-for address to the route.

I don't think there is a bug in the program.

Whew! That is a relief. I was thinking the forum was only dedicated to gps. I will be so pleased to have all your help. And so will the breast cancer crew. They are counting on me.
I am on lunch, on my Iphone so I will check it out when I get home. Things I remember....
I opened 2004 file in 2010. It looked perfect. I saw search in top left. Thought ah-ha check that out, let's see if it will zoom in to show me that stop.
What it did was bring up a box with push pin to the right blocks/miles from the route.
So I deleted it. Then wondering what the heck search was for.
I then noticed the address in all the boxes. I gave up and posted here.
A day after I opened file again. Went to deleted it out of some boxes and it won't delete or backspace.
When I get home. I'll zoom and attach some more pic and also try to duplicate it.
One more quick question... Boyfriend brought home 2010 version w/o gps. Can I purchase the receiver and still use this. Or do I have to buy a box that states gps on it?

Thanks again!!!!!!!

Yes, you can separately purchase a GPS receiver that will work with 2010. However, it must receive at 4800 bps (not 9600) so just be a little careful when buying.

Nonetheless, it might be easier to return the one he brought home and exchange it for a unit with the GPS receiver included, if the vendor has it in stock, rather than tracking down a separate GPS which you probably will have to source on the internet.

Kathlene, another thing you might consider doing is to attach the file to a posting here.

In that way, we can look at what is going on and perhaps come up with a solution.

Kathlene, if you do attach a file, as SpadesFlush requested, please make it the 2004 file. I have 2010 installed but I don't have an old file that I can test with. I didn't even look at Streets&Trips until the 2008 version.

...ken...

I'm hoooooome, LOL

hmmm..
I made a 2ndCopy of the original file so as not to mess up the orginal...
Opened 2010
browsed for 2004 2nd copy version > opened
Caution window came up: The file was created with an older version of the map. Before you can open this file, your records must be matched to the updated map. Click ok to match the records and open the file > I clicked ok.
The file opened and looks like the 1st copy that I spoke about earlier with the address in all the boxes.

I opened up 2004 program and tried to open original file and it looks fine.

I opened it up again in 2010, got the warning> click ok, got address in the all the boxes again.
I'm going to go mess with another older file and see if I can duplicate the problem. as it stands now, I can't cause when I open it in 2010 the addresses are in the box. I'll go open up another day of the route. There are 3 days, and the problem one is day 1

I'll attach the original and copy of the files.

I've attached day 2 also, I haven't done or tried anything. I thought I would just attach a fresh file straight from the folder that has'nt been opened up in a couple of yrs, should be from 2004 version.

THANK YOU!!!

Attached Files

	1stCopy of sgk2005Day1_test.est (211.0 KB)
	sgk2005Day1.est (205.0 KB)
	2ndCopy of sgk2005Day1_test.est (205.0 KB)
	sgk2005Day2.est (212.5 KB)

oh...the 2005 you see in the file names is the year the maps were made for year the event was held. It is not the program version year.

Tried to duplicate with day 2, was unable to get same results. So who knows what I did the first time. But I don't remember trying anything out besides looking around the new program. and typing that address in the search pane
What was meant when it might have been possible that I had created from a "push pin set"
hmm...I remember something about push pin set, asking me if I wanted to...?, but that was way after this happened. I did this mistake I am most sure right after I opened the program up and was checking it out.
I looked around again, and I'm thinking I may have seen that push pin question when I tried file > new> import data wizard????
But then again, who knows what this old woman did, LOL.

any ways, my actions on dulication were:
opened 2010> day 2> warning to match> clicked ok
typed "sunset cliffs blvd" in search box > results were a pushpin on road with text box, no problem anywhere else.
>deleted push pin >closed program >save changes > clicked no.
Opened up in 2004 version... all ok.

Kathlene, I have looked at your route map in 2010 and I have the following observations.

First, I think it is a splendid use of Streets and Trips; your use of different pushpin styles is clear and instructive; well done!

But now, I am not sure what the problem is. From what you write, S&T worked the way it should have.

When you do a search for a specific address as you did, S&T will always create a pushpin for that address and that will be in your "My Pushpins" set which is what happened in your case. If you already have a set called "My Pushpins" but it is hidden (which is not the case on your map), it will create a new set called "My pushpins 2". You have a few choices. You can hide the information flag by right-clicking on the pushpin and selecting "Show Information." Note that if it is already showing the information, it will toggle the information off and vice versa. Is that what you are trying to do? Or you can hide the entire new pushpin set, if one has been created. If you don't want the new pushpin added to an existing pushpin set, you must "hide" the old pushpin set so that it creates a new set for the new pushpin.

All this hiding and unhiding of pushpin sets is new in 2010, so it takes a little getting used to. But it is a very powerful tool to achieve things not previously possible. Even if you create a new pushpin in a set where you don't want it to be, you can cut it out of that set and paste it into a new set.

So, you can have that new address on the map without messing up the route you previously created. You can hide the flag for that pushpin or hide the flags for all the pushpins that you create in the new set.

Okay, two things.

First, the "1st copy..." file you attached is not your original 2004 file. It has been saved out of 2010. I know this because I can open it directly in 2010.

The "2nd copy..." file is definitely an older version file. When I open it it gives me the popup window about needing to match everything before it can proceed.

Which brings me to the second issue ... the problem is with the matching.

The spurious address is not in every info balloon .. only in some.

Streets&Trips has the nasty habit (at least since my first experience with it in 2008 version) of not telling you when it can't match an address. It just automatically does something stupid with it without any warning.

For instance, I once imported a bunch of addresses (about thirty-six) in my city from an Excel spreadsheet. There were about a dozen it couldn't match but there was no warning. The only reason I caught it was because it stuck all twelve of those pushpins in the same spot .. on the spot it associates with the city. Stupid thing did what it thought was the best match possible .. the city name .. instead of telling me it couldn't match the address.

Anyway, it seems clear that there is something going on with the matching when it brings the old file in. The spurious address does not appear in all of the pushpin information balloons; only in some of them. And it appears there without having to do a search. In the first incident you probably didn't notice the spurious address until after you did that search. Or you did the search to find out why it was in some of those information balloons? I'm only speculating.

In any case, it's not necessary to do a search. It's happening as part of the matching process when it brings the old file in. When I bring the "2nd copy..." file in, it adds "3545 Del Mar Heights Rd, San Diego, CA 92130" to a bunch of the info balloons (I did NOT do any searching). I'm guessing that's a legitimate address of one of the pushpins that it's not matching correctly. But it's just a guess. I'm not experienced enough with Streets&Trips to know where to look next to verify it was a bad match.

It looks pretty clear at this point that it's nothing you did.

Oh yeah, if you click on the steering wheel icon to get directions, they look okay so you shouldn't need to do anything to make the files usable if it's the directions that you care about. They should print out just fine.

If you need to print copies of the map(s) with that nice bold route line and the Post numbers, just click DATA, Data Set Properties and click "Hide...". That will make all those balloons go away so you can print the map. The blue route line is still there. The yellow boxes with the post numbers are there and the boxes with the black borders and red text (eg. "Cheering station", etc) all still show up.

...ken...

I checked the "Matching" tab in the Data Set Properties window. It shows there are 57 items in the imported pushpin set and shows them all as "Matched by hand".

I'm guessing that means that all of the items from the old file had location coordinates associated with them rather than addresses (possibly because they were all originally placed by hand in the old file??).

So maybe 2010 feels compelled to fill in addresses even though there weren't any addresses in the original set from the old file? And who knows where it's going to grab that address from.

By the way, when I said in my previous post that the address doesn't show up in all the information balloons I was wrong. I'm not entirely familiar with Streets&Trips terminology (I'm mostly a Garmin user) or some of its operating conventions. Here's what actually happens:

When I click on the directions icon in the toolbar and click on one of the directions, another one-line "information balloon" pops onto the map with the actual direction in it, just like the pushpin info balloon except only one line and no address. It does that for every direction in the list. That fooled me into thinking that only some of the pushpin info balloons had that spurious address. Sorry about that...

I'm leaning towards some sort of anomaly in Streets 2010 that's being exposed in the matching routine because your original data was placed by hand rather than using addresses. But just a guess. I am positive, however, that it's nothing you did.

...ken...

hmm I thought I responded last night, but don't see file i uploaded.

(possibly because they were all originally placed by hand in the old file??).

yes they were.

we don't use the written directions, many volunteers are from out of town so they need the maps so they can see streets and get their bearings.
We also need the flag/text boxes, it contains quick reference to what is at or need at each stop. I zoom and copy the picture into paint shop pro to create jpg files to print and all they pages are placed into a binder for each member. I'll attach a jpg for ya
Were you able to delete that address out of any of the boxes? I wasn't
Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening again?

again, thank you alll soooooooooooo much!

Attached Images

San Diego 3-Day 2007 Day 3 page 16.jpg (60.3 KB)

I can only think of one way to delete the addresses out of the flag boxes: go to each one individually (yes, I know there are 57), right-click on it, and then click on Show name. In that way, the flag will show only the name.

P. S. If you want to have the descriptive stuff that is under the address in the pushpin flag visible, you will have to cut and paste it from where it is to the top line of the flag name.

P. P. S. If you don't like having the yellow Stop box with its number in close proximity to your pushpin (I would find that to be understandable), just drag the Stop one way or the other along the route to a point where it does not interfere with your pushpin or the name flag which will stay where you placed it. The Stop waypoint will be irrelevant to your audience.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!! (mahalo nui loa!)

FYI, I went to Best Buy today to exchange for the GPS receiver version. The salesperson said I can only get at the online store.
As I was walking away another customer stopped me and offered to give me his receiver as he doesn't use it any more. He thought it was in his car, but it wasn't so he is mailing it to me today. Is that nice of him or what!!! I had to pushed money on him to at least pay for the shipping.

That was very nice of him . I find that Streets & Trips users in general are very nice people .

There appears to be a limit in the amt of text in the push pin title box. It won't take all the text I tried to put there to eliminate the lower info part.
The first box I clicked on to try, it also changed my pushpin icon. I had to go into the properties and change it back.

Definitely found that out when I landed here!!!

Kathlene, I think I found a work-around to eliminate the two unwanted lines of address (always the same) from you pushpin flags. I am sorry but it is a bit tedious and somewhat counter-intuitive.

Go to each pushpin one-by-one and cut it (select pushpin, right-click, Cut) and then immediately Paste it back into the map (\Edit[at the top of the screen], Paste). The pushpin will be reinserted at the correct place but without the two lines of address. Odd functioning of the software, but it seems to work.

Well, I went ahead and did the whole map, see attached. Please double check that all the pushpins are there as I may have inadvertently deleted one or two.

When doing the paste function, I found it easier to hit Alt-E-P.

Attached Files

2ndCopy of sgk2005Day1_test PK.est (224.0 KB)

OMG! Thank you so much. Way beyond anything I expected. You rock!!
I tell that was alot easier then having to retype each box.

Glad to help, Kathlene; we all learned something from your inquiry.

Cutting each pushpin and pasting them actually creates multiple pushpin sets that might make it hard to manage these pushpins in ST2010. Try cutting the Pushpin set from the legends and overview pane and pasting it again, this also eliminates the problem. Not sure if this is a file conversion issue or an issue specific to this file, but we will surely look into this.

Kathlene, I updated the file and saved it using 2010 and have attached it now. In the process of doing this we found that ST2004 works on Win7 and we also created a same version of your file using ST2004 and that opens in ST2010 without any issues. I am able to repro this problem only with the file that you have provided and not able to recreate the full problem from scratch.

Attached Files

2ndCopy of sgk2005Day1_test.est (208.0 KB)

Hi Gladwin. Rather than repeat my summary and speculation about the problem, if you haven't already seen this short thread please take a peek.

http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/2690-bug-related-converting-files-w-pushpins-new-streets-trips-version

Thanks.

...ken...

Hi Ken,

When you say you tested it in 2009 and 2010, did you actually recreate the complete scenario by installing ST2004 and created a est file and you saw the same problem that Kathlene sees, while opening the ST2004 file that you just created?

Or did you just open the file that Kathlene provided using ST2009 and ST2010? I am able to repro the problem with the file that Kathlene had provided, But i am trying to see how one can create such a file using ST2004.

You all are the bomb! Although alot of this is going over my head, did I mention, I am 'almost' 5'.
I've read the two discussions and I don't know if this has any merit, but when I first opened the 04 file in 10 version, the address wasn't in the boxes. I remember looking at the boxes to find one that had a 'real' address in it. That is why that address was used in the search box. After the search is when it popped into the other boxes.
Again, thank you all ever so much.
I'm in the process of searching the forum now to learn new things

Kathlene, I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned it, or if you've already stumbled upon it yourself, but there is a wealth of knowledge in our Tips & Tricks for Streets & Trips section. You've been using S&T for ages, so most of the stuff is a second nature to you, but there may be a tip or two that you may still find useful.

Hi Gladwin,

I don't have anything older than 2008 that I could install and test with. So I just tried loading the files that Kathlene provided. At least one of them was saved out of 2010 so it's not relevant (eg. it does not trigger the "older version/needs matching" dialog when it's opened but already has the bogus address in it). I assumed the other two were originals from her 2004 version because they do trigger the "older version/needs matching" dialog. Immediately after the matching, without me doing anything else, the bogus address is there in all of the pushpins.

Unfortunately I don't know for sure that any of the files Kathlene provided are 2004 originals or if they have all been through 2010 in some way.

Kathlene, is there any way you could attach a copy of one of your 2004 files that A) has never been in 2010 and B) does not have that bogus address in the pushpins (check it in 2004, not in 2010)? That would be most helpful.

...ken...

Hi Ken,

Kathlene sent before and after files in this post: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/2636-reading-old-version-files-new-version-microsoft-streets-trips#post19760

I do have a version of S&T 2004 and was able to open the 2004 files with no conversion needed. The address was not shown in the balloons while viewing in S&T 2004.

Thanks, Larry. Those are the files I have been working with. But it's not absolutely clear to me that any of those files have never been through 2010 on her machine. The reason I have some hesitation about that is that Kathlene has mentioned on more than one occasion that she loaded a 2004 file, did a search on that specific address and now it shows up in all the pushpins.

I was assuming that she did the search in 2010. But if that's the case, how is it that that specific address is corrupting her 2004 files that supposedly have never been loaded in 2010?

So, either she did the search for that address in 2004 and subsequently loaded those files in 2004 and corrupted them before they ever got into 2010.

Or she did the search in 2010 and all of the files she has attached have somehow been corrupted by 2010.

Or that address is somewhere in the 2004 files and when 2010 runs the matching routine it is using it to fill the address fields on any pushpins that don't already have address information in them.

Or something like that. As I have mentioned, Streets&Trips matching routine appears unpredictable to me. I say that because it does things that are strange when viewed from the outside. Without knowing the exact algorithm I have no idea whether its behavior is exactly as designed or if it truly is as demented as it sometimes seems.

So, I would like a run at this with at least one file that does not have that bogus address showing in the info balloons of the pushpins in Streets&Trips 2004 on Kathlene's computer and that Kathlene is absolutely positively 100% certain has never been anywhere near 2010 before she attaches it here. Just as a baseline test.

...ken...

I'm glad there is an easier way.

yes, the files that do not say copy, were original files. I made copies of them to play with. But I will be happy to supply any files you need.
BTW, I leave for track days tomorrow on the Buell, will be away from internet except for the IPhone.. if service for that is even available where I am going (willow) Be back sun or mon.

here ya go, day 2 and day 3 have not been anywhere near 2010, and none of the days of _06 have been open in a year or more, nor been anywhere near 2010
and I am not sure if these files have that address in it..as the route changed most years. I do know that day 2 and 3 will most likely NOT have the same addresses and any of the other files.

Attached Files

	sgk2005Day2.est (212.5 KB)
	sgk2005Day3.est (211.5 KB)
	sgk2005Day1_06.est (204.5 KB)
	sgk2005Day2_06.est (212.5 KB)
	sgk2005Day3_06.est (207.0 KB)

Thanks hugely, Kathlene. Have a great time on the Buell. And look after it well. They aren't making any more of them.

...ken...

Hi Kathlene,

I've opened all five of those latest files in 2010.

Four of them do not have the bogus address in them.

One of them (sgk2005Day1_06.est) has that same address in the info balloons of all the pushpins.

It looks like it must be something you did in 2004 in some of the files, before they ever saw 2010.

...ken...

There is still something happening that I don't understand. I took a look in the 2004 .EST file (using a moderately smart text editor) that shows up in 2010 with "3545 Del Mar Heights Rd" in every info balloon and I can only find a single instance of that address in the file.

I had expected to see multiple instances in the file associated with all of the pushpins or else positioned somewhere in the file that a single instance might reasonably be assumed to be a "global" data element. But it only appears in a list of other addresses in the file.

I guess I better stop looking at it. Without a schema for the 2004 .EST file I'm just wasting time now, I think.

...ken...

I am not a very sophisticated user so I am going to explain my question in detail and hope someone will be able to answer. It is about backward compatibility.

I have used S&T 2004 for several years in my business as a locator map; that is I have my clients' locations (chain restaurants and the like) as pushpin sets and I have my network of independent contractors (IC's) in pushpin sets. The purpose is to find the closest IC to a client location. I've updated these over the years by adding sets. We've also updated them by making notes on the individual IC's pushpins so there is valuable historical data there.

The files are on a server and accessed by 3 of us here in the office on our individual desktops.

We are about to scrap our old desktops and get new ones. We ordered the 32 bit version of Windows 7 to insure backwards compatibility with some older MS Access apps we use.

If we purchase S&T 2011 and install an individual copy on each of our new desktops will it open the 2004 files?

No.

Backwards compatability only extends a few versions but 2011 certainly will not bridge as far back as 2004. I think 2007 will open 2004 files and maybe 2011 will open 2007 files (I know 2010 will), so you might try getting a copy of 2007 and run the conversion on that and again on 2011.

SpadesFlush, thank you!

At least now I know what I can't do. The 2007 suggestion is a good one and I might try that.

But here is another question. I have all of the software for the 2004 version. I really don't, for my purposes, even need to have the maps updated with new roads etc.

So, will the old 2004 software be compatible with Win7 Pro and can I just load that and all will be well?

Thanks again for the first answer and for the anticipated one to come.

To be honest, I don't know.

I just did a search through my old stuff but I could not find S&T 2004 (I cannot remember if I had that specific year but I probably have it somewhere) to test it in my Win7U environment.

But what's the downside? Either it will run or it won't. If it does - great! If not, there are a few things you can do. How many files are we talking about anyway?

Well, I have 20 different files. (different States or grouping of States) Over the years I have imported data groups to each of them on several occasions so that Looking in the Legends and Overview on any of them you will find 6 or up to 12 different listings.

The thing is that I have all of the things I keep track of in a database but on the maps themselves I have changed pushpins, etc to help direct searches and losing all those years of work would be miserable.

I see the copy/paste fix that has been mentioned in this thread. That seems quite tedious especially given that it seems I would have to copy/paste first from 2004 to 2007 and then from 2007 to 2011.

Thanks for continuing to think on this. I appreciate it.

Hi Bill, and welcome to the forum. The Copy & Paste method should work regardless of which versions you use. It should allow you to copy your pushpin sets (or individual pushpins), and even some other elements (such as drawings on the map, text boxes on the map) from your 2004 to your new 2011 (and even from new ST2011 back to old ST2004). The only thing which doesn't work is opening actual files, which were saved in much older version, in a current version.

And elaborating on Marvin's point of copying and pasting, note that if you do that at the set level, rather than individual pushpins, it is very quick and easy. Even 12 different sets (listings) can be done in about a minute.

Hey Marvin. Thanks for jumping in here. So if I am understanding this correctly you both recommend the best avenue to be that of getting 2011, installing it alongside the 2004 version and then with both versions open copy/pasting the pin sets from 2004 to 2011?

I just want to be sure before I shoot out of the starting blocks without knowing for sure the track I'm on.

Yeah, if all that you need to preserve is your pushpin sets, the Copy & Paste procedure is what I would try to do first. You don't even need to buy Streets & Trips 2011, as you can just download the trial version, test it, and if you are happy with the results, then buy the boxed product, and use its activation code to activate the downloaded software (there's no difference between the downloaded trial and the boxed retail product.

Thanks again Marvin. I'm getting more and more nervous about this as I think about it. I've been using these maps daily since the 2004 version was installed and I've added and altered pushpins all over every one of the 20 saved maps.

SpadesFlush didn't know this; maybe you do?

But here is another question. I have all of the software for the 2004 version. I really don't, for my purposes, even need to have the maps updated with new roads etc.

So, will the old 2004 software be compatible with Win7 Pro and can I just load that and all will be well?

Bill, there is really very little to be nervous about. The copy/paste procedure will only take a couple of minutes. If you can install, on the same PC, both v2004 and v2011, simply open a desired file in version 2004, then open ST2011 so you have both, the 2004 and 2011, versions running. In the Legend & Overview pane of the old 2004, right click a pushpin set and select "Copy", then bring up the 2011 window, and on your keyboard press Ctrl + V to paste. It should work just fine.

I no longer have version 2004 installation discs, or it may be very time consuming to locate them at home, so neither I can answer if that version works on Windows 7. It may, but I just don't know.

The nervousness comes not from the pushpin sets; I'm not afraid of the copy/paste on that. What makes me queasy is that I have also added literally thousands of individual pushpins to those maps and they will be lost forever.

Do you know of anyone or anyplace I might ask the question about 2004 running on MSPro7?

I am surprised at your reluctance to install S&T 2004 on your Win7 computer...it will either work or it won't! Regardless, I just installed it on a computer running Win7 64 Ultimate and didn't encounter any issues. I didn't try Win7 Pro but I can't think why that would make any difference.

If there is something I could test for you, let me know.

Terry

Attached Images

st2004.jpg (108.7 KB)

Hi Terry,

I'm not reluctant. I'm gathering info right now. I am entirely anal retentive and proud of it. I hate to make a move without knowing exactly the result. Since I have a small home-based business that has only two other people working at it besides myself it is important that the tools work. I spend about 80% of every day trying to find people that live near places and I use these maps for that. They are my greatest efficiency asset. Since I am throwing away all of our desktops and installing new ones it is very important to me that before I do so I know how the existing software tools are going to work with the new hardware. I don't want to be in a position where I've put a new desktop in from of everyone and it seems nice and shiny but won't let them do their work.

If you say that installing 2004 on the new machines will work then that probably is the first thing I'll try as it seems the least likely path to insure that my years of data compilation will be lost. The help and advice that SpadesFlush and Marvin have given me provides the basis for my backup plan(s).

Like I said; I'm anal retentive but I rarely have stress over having something go wrong that I hadn't at least anticipated. I have other concerns with this upgrade too and I am approaching them in the same manner. I'm throwing away (long over due I admit) some pretty old hardware (9years) and hoping to retain working software and developed applications as best as possible to avoid interruptions to my personal work schedule, that of my partner and employee, and more importantly the flow if work product to my clients. To me it seems worth it to do a bunch of investigation to this end before unplugging the old and plugging in the new.

Thanks for your help!

To be clear, I would Marvin is suggesting with the free trial download and I would do it on your OLD computer, where the old S&T 2004 is running. Installing S&T 2011 does not over-write older versions so you can have them both running in side-by-side windows. That is the easiest way to cut and paste. Save the new files created in S&T 2011.

Then, when you are all done making the conversion, download S&T 2011 to your new Win7 machine, install it, register it, and then just transfer the new S&T files to the new computer and you should be good to go.

What didn't I know?

You just didn't know for sure if 2004 would run okay with WINPro7 because you couldn't find your discs.

Marvin didn't have them either.

However SpadesFlush suggested approach does not even involve installing 2004 on a Win7 machine but 2011 on your XP device. We do know this works, albeit a little slow.

Terry

Yes, except for all those 100's, probably thousands of individual pushpins that I would lose.

Why would you lose them...Just copy them from one program to the other and resave the result under a new name.

Terry

Duh! Light dawns on Marblehead! I thought that in the Legend & Overview area it only showed sets which I had imported and individually named. I didn't realize and I do now that if I put a Pushpin on the map individually it by default goes into a 'My Pushpins' set. I'm good now. I'm going to load a trial copy of 2011 and see if I can get my pins from a 2004 map to show up on a 2011 map. Hopefully I won't need 2007 in the middle.

I'll let you guys know how it works it.

It may be several days because month end is nearing and I need to abandon this for a bit. But I'll let you know.

Thanks to all of you very much!

Yes, you've got it now Bill! A single (not thousands) copy/paste will move all your pushpins within the 'My pushpins' set from one map to another.

I still don't get the nervousness. Especially for someone who is anal.

Can you spell b-a-c-k-u-p??

I am anal. I do at least two backups. Sometimes three. Then I test away.

...ken...

True only if all the pushpins are in one set. We should be clear that each pushpin set will require its own cut-and-paste operation, not that that is onerous. It takes about 5 seconds per set. We don't know how many sets Bill has to deal with.

It is a total of 21 map files and 635 sets within in them it will take me some time. I doubt I'll be able to meet your 5 seconds each challenge; I hope so though. Tedious. I'm going to work on it this weekend hopefully.

Wish me luck.

As you complete each map file, make sure to save them with a different name than the originals. Then you will still have files usable by your old program.

Terry

That's a lot. Good luck! These sets are obviously important to you and I am sure it will be worth the effort.

One payoff will be that, once you have got all that data into S&T 2011 shape, you will be able to export it all quickly and easily to Excel spreadsheets and more easily import the data should it be required. Also, some tasks are easier with Excel files than just working with pushpins.

Good points about Excel. Also, some users feel more comfortable keeping their database in Excel, and import it to Streets & Trips when needed. No worries about different S&T version formats when database is in XL.

Okay, not good news. I got the 2011 loaded and it seems to be working fine. I (After saving a back-up copy) opened one of the older maps in 2004 and got it side by side with 2011 and tried a copy/paste. Copy okay. Paste not so much. It doesn't take!

Does that mean I need to get the 'interim' version? 2007?

Sorry to hear this, Bill. But let's try to diagnose the problem before jumping.

How do you know the copy went ok? Can you open another example of S&T2004 in another window and paste into that when side-by-side?

Yes.

Sounds like you are down to the interim 2007.

The good news is that you won't have go through the cut-and-paste routine for all those sets.

Do you know if there is anyplace I can download a copy of 2007?

No. The only thing I "know" is the link I attached earlier in the thread.

Thanks Spades. I spent quite a while searching last night and I can't come up with anything that looks safe. I guess I'll buy one of the used copies from Amazon and wait it out. I'll keep you posted.

Thank you very much for all your help.

You too Marvin and Terry!

While I don't fully understand the pushpin setup for S&T, I tried a simple test on my computer with the few (29) it had. I double clicked on the 'My Puspins section of the Legend and Overview in S&T 2004 and chose the Matching tab. I highlighted the list by shift clicking on the last of the list, right clicked on the list and chose Copy from the dropdown menu. I went to S&T 2011, right clicked on the map and chose Paste. The My Pushpins list appeared on the Legend and Overview pane and the pushpins seemed to be in the right places on the map.

Unfortunately, I don't have as complex a set of pushpins as you. However if it works for a small sample, why not for a larger one.

Terry

Terry, that seems like good technique to me and Bill should try that.

Well, I followed Terry's steps and indeed the pushpins were able to be copied over. Here is the rub; the properties that have been changed on the map do not carry over. The properties of the set rule.

So, if say as an example a set's (set representing people that live near a location that I need people to visit; I get these people from sign-ups on my website 'wanabees I call them') properties are Blue pushpins. Within the set over time I have 'touched' and contacted many of the people and learned thing about them; the most likely that they didn't reply to me at all. I would then go their pushpin and change the color to still blue but a lying down pin. Another example is that when a person becomes active I change their individual pin properties from blue to black.

When the pins are copied to the new map they all revert back to the set's properties (blue pins) thus negating all that work.

I've kind of been aware of this being an issue and never really gave it much thought; now it is coming clearly to mind why it is an issue and why I should have given it more thought.

If I need to accept that then I may as well just discard all the maps I have and start over because the changes to the properties of the individual pushpins in the map are what is critical to me.

Yes, you are correct and we have not discussed this issue heretofore. New pushpins added via copy and paste always get the default pushpin icon. So your color coding of prospects goes down the tube.

I forget how S&T 2004 handles pushpin icons but if it is anything like S&T2010, here is a possible work-around.

If you open the "Matching" tab of the Properties context menu for a set of pushpins, you should see the icons that have been selected for each pushpin in that set. So, you could go through a set selecting all those with matching icons (ctrl-click the ones you want), copy them onto a map in S&T 2010 as a new set. Then, in the new map, go to properties again and change the icon for the entire set to what they were in the source map. When you have done that for all the different icons you have used, you can combine them back into a single set, just like they were in S&T 2004.

Or, you can wait until you have your S&T 2007 and hope that conversion works.

BTW, if you were truly anal, you would have been buying S&T each time they came out with a new version.

Nope. I can say with certainty that someone who is truly anal will not upgrade until and unless we are certain things will continue to work in the new version EXACTLY as they do in our current version. If it matters, we may not upgrade at all unless there is some truly compelling reason.

...ken...

In that case I would say for sure Bill should stay with S&T 2004 on his Win7 machines!

Terry

Some people have in their cars map books that are 15, even 20 years old. As long as the area hasn't changed much, version 2004 may still be just fine.

I'd suggest you to consider starting to move your customer database to Excel. It will be easier to manage, and easier to import to any future Streets & Trips version.

Marvin, can you maintain the pushpin details in Excel? If not, that would be a showstopper.

...ken...

Bill has two (or more) categories of customers/prospects. They could be on two (or more) different pages (in Excel), or in different spreadsheets, or in different columns. A customer from one category (in Excel) could be moved to another category (in Excel).

These two (or more) categories of customers could then be separately imported to Streets & Trips. After importing, each of the categories (each of the pushpin sets) could be assigned its own pushpin symbol.

That would work, Marvin.

But I like Bill's technique of changing the pushpin icon in S&T when he wants to re-categorize the prospect. He could carry on doing that, but with periodic archiving to Excel through GPX export if he were using S&T 2011.

This could also be an interesting reading related to this topic: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/2698-how-move-multiple-pushpins-one-pushpin-set-another

You guys are really smart! Moving stuff back & forth though seems labor intensive; I think you would agree if you knew more details of how I import data now and how I treat the pins once they are on the maps.

I've got a copy of S&T 2007 coming. If my 2004 converts to 2007 and then 2007 converts to 2011 then I'm golden. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

If that doesn't work let's hope the 2004 maps will play nice with the Win7 OpSys.

If that doesn't work I am going to keep one of the machines I am currently using and keep my maps on there. (2004 version) Maybe, just maybe if this is the case I will start some new ones using 2011 on on the new machine and try to figure out if I can transfer somehow the 'pin history' form the old maps.

I agree with the 'anal' conclusion 'don't change it til you have to and are sure it will absolutely work' but I am learning something valuable here. In my office only my wife & I use these maps for our work in running our business. So buying a fresh version each year is a VERY minor expense to insure not coming to this point ever again!

Thanks again for all your help!