Why is it at zoom level 100 mi most of the rivers and waterways are shown but once you zoom in to 90 mi and less most of them are eliminated. I wished they'd show the rivers and certain waterways on S&T at all zoom levels.

It seems odd they don't, because on Bing Maps the rivers are shown. Bing Maps and S&T appears to be one and the same, at least for the most part.

This is an interesting topic. I've also wondered why this was the case. Each time a new Microsoft Streets and Trips version comes out I check lakes and rivers at various zoom levels.

I think much older versions didn't have this issue, but if I recall correctly it was Streets & Trips 2005 that first exhibited this add behavior of some bodies of water disappearing when we zoom in closer to them.

That certainly is interesting. I wonder if the difference is when it switches from displaying features from the basemap versus when it starts to display from the detailled maps.

I wish there was some indication on the display when Streets is displaying from the basemap versus when it's displaying from the detailled maps.

.........

Okay, I just fired up Mobile PC which uses the same Navteq map data as Streets&Trips. Here's what happens:

When zoomed w-a-y out you will see that it's displaying from the basemap, not the detailled maps. As you start to zoom in, more detail appears on the basemap display. You see lots of rivers and lakes. Then, when you zoom to a level where the detail maps first start to display, many of the lakes and rivers disappear.

That makes sense because it's a zoom level that would cause a lot of clutter if all that detail was displayed.

Next, as you zoom tighter in Mobile PC on the detailled maps, the river and lake details start to reappear at a zoom level that is appropriate so that it's not too cluttered to be useful. The behaviour of when more details start to appear when zooming is controlled in the preferences on Mobile PC.

However, Streets & Trips does not show this same behaviour after the switch to the detail maps. That is, when the river and lake details disappear, continuing to zoom in does not make the details reappear. At least not in the areas I just tested.

That's odd.

The other thing I noticed is that Streets & Trips has huge zoom jumps compared to Mobile PC. In Mobile PC you zoom in much smaller jumps so you have better control of the display, in my opinion.

...ken...

Hi Ken,

The manner in which Streets & Trips zooms in and out largely depends on which method you are using to make the zoom changes.

For smaller zoom jumps give the zoom slider (in the advanced toolbar) focus then use the right and left arrow keys to zoom in/out.

Larry

Thanks, Larry. That gives much finer control than spinning the mouse wheel. It's bassackwards, though. I would much rather have the fine control on the mouse wheel.

It would be useful to have some indication of which map is being displayed: basemap or detailed map.

...ken...

At any rate, it is handy, sometimes necessary to know where you are in relation to rivers and lakes. This is something that has long bothered me about S&T.

Update (6 Nov 09): I rechecked my testing with Mobile PC and discovered that I did not have the Navteq maps (City Navigator) selected when I did the test. I had Metroguide Canada selected. The data in that map product is supplied by DMTI Spatial and is hugely superior to Navteq for that sort of data. I apologize for the error

I know it won't make you feel any better, but iGuidance and Odyssey Navigator do the same thing. As soon as you zoom in close enough to switch from displaying the basemap to displaying the detailed maps, that detail disappears, just like in Streets&Trips.

I have four nav programs with Navteq map data. Garmin's Mobile PC is the only one that does it right, in my view. The detail disappears when you zoom tight enough to switch from basemap to detail maps but it reappears as you get zoomed tight enough that the detail won't overwhelm the display. The zoom level it appears at is controlled by the "Map Detail" setting.

My testing suggests that the necessary detail is in the Navteq detail maps (based on Mobile PC's ability to display it) but for some reason Streets&Trips, iGuidance and Odyssey Navigator have been programmed not to show it.

...ken...

But, reiterating to my original question. Is Microsoft's Bing Maps the same as S&T and Map Point? Maybe it is or maybe it isn't, but it's obviously a Microsoft Product and if they can do it in Bing Map's I don't see why they can't do it in S&T.

I made an error in the testing described in my previous post.

...ken...

I wouldn't go so far as to say you were completely wrong. A river shown on the basemap of MapSource and Odyssey Navigator do continue to show regardless of how far you zoom in. iGuidance shows a couple of lakes (but no rivers) in my area at any zoom level. S&T shows rivers and lakes on the basemap but only larger lakes when zoomed in.

I think it is just a matter of displaying as little as possible to do the job without increasing clutter. These are specifically road navigation programs after all.

Terry

That's true, but Microsoft Streets and Trips in addition to being just a road navigation program is also a trip planner, a vacation planner. It may be a bit frustrating to plan a fishing trip if your lake or a river is missing.

Possibly, but I would assume you know where it is before you plan your trip. If you intend to navigate while on a waterway, there are programs specificaly for that purpose. S&T is not one of them. In fact, I doubt those programs use Navteq data considering how inaccurate even its shoreline representations are.

Terry

We aren't talking about navigating while on a lake, we're talking about navigating to the lake or river.
I know where Calgary is, but I might want to use S&T to plan a trip there.

That's why I like the Garmin solution. The basic City Navigator maps that come preinstalled in it seem to have more of that sort of detail than Streets & Trips or iGuidance or Odyssey Navigator (all four use Navteq map data).

But more importantly for me, I have been able to add Metroguide Canada and Topo Canada. So I have whatever amount of geographical detail I need. I have all three maps loaded simultaneously, so it's a simple change of a checkmark on a settings page to enable the one I want to look at.

But I confess to being a bit of a map geek in addition to being a technology geek.

EDIT: 9 Nov 09 to correct a factual error. At the detail level the hydrology information seems to be identical in all four products. Which should be no surprise since they all use Navteq data. Mea Culpa.
...ken...

Larry has posted related information in the "main" S&T forum section: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/2734-microsoft-streets-trips-water-features-brief-history

I just want to point out that I've had to edit a factual error out of my previous post (#14).

...ken...

Including waterways and railroad tracks is vital to navigation, they are major landmarks and you need to know that you have to reach/cross these to get to your destination/turn. The shoreline of a lake is also a major landmark when you are trying to decide which campground you want to check out.

You folks need to save old S&Ts, as each update removes usable stuff.
I have copies of
2002 (still shows Post Offices)
2004 (still shows rivers)
I used to bitch at MS, but now just use the program I need for what ever.
2005 was CRAP
Haven't upgraded since 2006 and won't until I see a real improvement, with out loss of content.....

Welcome to the forums! Streets & Trips 2010 brought back Post Offices. It even added Pharmacies (not sure if they were ever included in older versions).