It's the ONLY conclusion I can come to. I enabled the GPS on an Acer One with the UNDP-1 Gobi 1000 module, and it just won't work with Microsoft Streets and Trips 2006.

BUT (And it's a BIG BUT)

Not only does it work just fine with 3 much more advanced GPS mapping programs I have (OziExplorer, Fugawi Marine, Dr Depth), I can run all three at the same time AND all three are also reading the NMEA Depth Sentence from my Garmin Fishfinder.

I also tried it with a couple of other GPS mapping programs including one written in .NET and they all work just fine

Only Streets & Trips 2006 doesn't work.

CONCLUSION: Bad NMEA implementation whether Microsoft wants to admit it (or better, yet actually do something about it) or not.

I take it from your post that you have some experience with setting up a gps receiver to "talk" to a navigation program. So, I assume that you have properly configured all three settings; Com Port # (common to both GPS and Nav Program), GPS Baud rate set to 4800 and GPS Refresh Rate set to 1/second. If that is the case, maybe you would like to give some details about the error statements that you are receiving from Streets & Trips. Someone might have additional thoughts/clues to offer as help.

I, too, wonder if the baud rate may be an issue. Microsoft Streets and Trips can only use the 4800. There are increasing numbers of GPS receivers on the market today, which default to higher baud rates. It would be nice to see future versions of Streets & Trips (and AutoRoute, and Mappoint) supporting higher baud rates (and higher refresh rates).

In the mean time, use GPS Gate as a work-around for the baud rate issue.

Time for an up-grade. How about downloading a trial version of Streets and Trips 2010 and reporting back on whether or not you have the same problem?

Everything is set 4800,8,N,1 across the board. Xport, Fugawi and OziExplorer all report it as a 4800 baud NMEA stream

I used a port monitor on the port and can't see where it's none compliant with the NMEA 2.0 spec. I even used an NMEA filter between the port and S&T to no avail.

Unfortunatley Microsoft dumbed down the GPS interface and you have absolutely no control over it. This is not a Show Stopper, this machine will mainly be used as a chartplotter and depth plotter for fishing/boating, I only bought S&T as a cheap way to replace a Pharos GPS puck and it's not really worth chucking out any more money to use it once or twice a year. I'll probably just make my own maps for Fugawi and take advantage of it's 3D view.

Netbook To Chartplotter Project

The latest version of S&T gives no relief because they haven't changed the GPS interface one lick

In fact other than updated maps and a few fancier icons on the buttons I can't see any differences, I certainly wouldn't consider it an upgrade except for the map data. (Maybe the routing actually works now but I not wasting my time messing with it if it's not going to work anyway)

It's the ONLY GPS mapping program I can't get to work, OBVIOUSLY a problem on Microsoft's part, they have to dumb down everything to the point it becomes unusable while programs written by hobbyists using Microsoft's own API's managed to get it right

Go figure, huh?

Yes, the bit rate is limited. Maybe you should just consider another GPS or try GPS Gate. Others are able to use S&T without all the problems you are experiencing.

Terry

Trying another GPS kind of defeats the point of having GPS built in especailly when every other program I use and use much more often works just fine

Tried Franson, didn't change a thing

EVERY other program identifies it as NMEA at 4800 baud, I placed monitors in between and there isn't a thing about the data that's out of NMEA specifications, just your standard GPVTG, GPRMC, GPGSA, GPGGA, and GPGLL data, lines beginning with $ and ending with a carriage return and a two digit checksum preceded by a * There is a bug in the program which Microsoft refuses to acknowledge because it probably only happens to a handful of people. It's cheaper to lose a few customers than fix a rare bug

S&T won't accept the connection but the reason is obviously other than what they claim which is not surprising given Microsoft's long history of error messages that don't have anything to do with the real problem

It's simply not worth my pursuing anymore, S&T isn't much worth in a boat where this unit will mainly be used. I just thought it would be nice to be able to use in in my truck once or twice a year since I already had the program. My main interest was to get it working for others who are following my blog

Netbook To Chartplotter Project

Maybe it would be more helpful if you could tell what the bug is that won't allow S&T to work with the Gobi. You say the sentence structure is standard, data rate is 4800 and refresh rate is 1Hz. If you can monitor it that closely, you should be able to see what the Gobi does different from other GPS. I don't have one and can't see how I would ever have one to test.

Terry

I am using S&T from many versions with the pharos receiver without any problem and it is working also with many other software. We cannot make a conclusion that the NMEA implementation of S&T is bad just because one device is not working with it correctly. The other softwares you are talking about that are working with the Gobi may have a more relax implementation that ignores some inconsistencies that may appear in the data.

Only a compare between data provided by two receivers (one that is working or not), or by looking at the NMEA data carefully can help doing a conclusion.

One thing i know of S&T sensitivity regarding GPS unit, if one having a broken cable that have intermittent failure, S&T serial communication can hang on it. But i am not sure it is related to NMEA in anyway. It could be just related that the serial communication cannot easily recover from communication problems...

But I can make that diagnosis when it works with every other program I've tried (over a dozen) and only Streets and Trips doesn't work

Basic troubleshooting knowledge tells me the problem is with Streets & Trips, obviously

Of course the Pharos unit works with it but again that defeats the purpose of having a built in GPS without cords from USB ports getting in the way

Besides Streets & Trips isn't much use in a boat so it's really not worth my while to pursue it any further

That's just it, there isn't a bit of difference between the data from the Pharos unit and the Gobi 1000 unit. The problem is NOT with the NMEA stream, Microsoft just pops up that error message because it's probably the only one there is, the catch all error message. I think we have all seen that problem with Microsoft's error messaging over the years.

I suspect the problem is there is no entry made in the Device Manager for virtual ports so S&T rejects it no matter if the NMEA stream is compliant or not. That is the ONLY difference I can find between the Gobi and Pharos GPS

longjohn119, I looked through your above posts, but I don't see what error message you got from S&T. I might have overlooked it, or you might have mentioned it already in another thread. Also, does the built-in GPS receiver include a software driver that creates a virtual com port? Without it, Streets & Trips will not be able to see the GPS receiver.

If there is no COM port, probably none of the other programs could find it either. But you are right - if there is no COM port, S&T won't find it. And neither will Mobile PC, iGuidance or GPS Gate. Can't say for sure about Street Atlas but it is unlikely.

Terry

It says the stream is not NMEA 2.0 compliant but it is. Let's be realistic though, just because the error message says that is the problem doesn't necessarily mean that it is the real problem, it's just a standard one size fits all error message. I think that anyone who has chased down an odd error on a computer has found that sometimes the error message given has nothing to do with the actual error.

It does see the port, it will hook to the port but then kicks it after a second. I think it's looking for a Serial Port entry in the Device Manager and when it doesn't see one it disconnects no matter if the NMEA stream is compliant

Since I rarely use S&T anyway (I bought it originally for $40 to replace a defective Pharos puck I had that Pharos wanted $100 to replace) as this is mainly a marine/fishing setup, it's not worth my pursuing any longer, I guess I'll just have to use the included Pharos unit when I use it once or twice a year on an out of town trip.

Netbook To Chartplotter Project

There is a com port, it's listed in the Registry but it's just not listed in the Device Manager. Most GPS mapping programs don't seem to care if it's listed in the Device Manager as long as it is listed in the Registry. Apparantly S&T is looking for both, it seems to use the Registry to find the port but looks to the Device Manager when it hooks up. That probably wasn't a problem a few years ago when every computer had a real serial port but those days are long gone and serial ports are now all virtualized

Sounds like S&T has problems with the implementation of NMEA, not the COM port. I am surprised GPS Gate could not resolve that for you. However, I agree that S&T does not fit into your boating experience. I thought you would be using Garmin nRoute.

However, it is not helpful to acuse Microsoft of nefarious and clumsy work just because you experience an issue between their product and your hardware.

Terry

I use OziExplorer for most things as I make most of my own maps, Fugawi Marine for IENC maps (Inland Electronic Navigation Charts) of the Mississippi and Dr Depth (As well as OziExplorer) for mapping depths. In addition to the NMEA GPS stream I also have NMEA depth sentences streamed from my Garmin 300C fishfinder on another serial port. Dr Depth is especially cool as it can make 3D maps of the bottom which has really helped finding interesting bottom structure and which hold fish and which don't. I can also see how certain structure changes from year to year or after a major rain event and flood.

Currently I'm adapting a netbook to be a touch screen tablet style mainly for my boat but it could also be used in a vehicle very easily. Since it will be a Tablet PC style it won't take up as much space. If you follow my blog on the netbook conversion in a couple of weeks or so you'll be able to see what I mean,

Netbook To Chartplotter Project

Although I live by a large body of water, its purpose is to ensure the weather does not deviate to extremes. I am not a boat-friendly person.

Terry

That's an excellent use of the Pacific Ocean, Terry. Too bad I can't convince my wife that living by a very large body of water would be a desirable thing. She thinks this dry, flat prairie dirt is the only place on the planet worth living.

...ken...

Hi longjohn119,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have a question and a request.

Have you installed S&T 2010 and seen the same behavior?
Are you able to record the NMEA txt output and attach the file to your post so it can be examined?

Thanks,
Larry

Well I could but unfortunatley not right now, The unit is partially disassembled to install a touch screen kit and embed a bluetooth transceiver and a wireless mouse receiver and possibly several other mods depending on space available. It's going to be a couple of weeks or more before I get it all back together

I appreciate the offer though. There is some sort of incompatibility with the Gobi 1000 module which haven't been out there all that long and I just happen to be the poor sucker that came across it first

That's just Life on the Cutting Edge I guess

My guess it will work with any version 2007+. There was a COM port issue that was fixed in 2007.

Whenever you get the chance - download the free trial of S&T 2010 and give it a go. I'd like to know if works as expected with a newer version.

I am having a similar problem.....Windows 7 using Franson GPSgate with a virtual com port. If I unplug my puck Streets & Trips 2010 automatically changes from the virtual com port to the actual comport preventing Franson from using the actual comport. Is there anyway to prevent S&T from automatically changing its comport settings? Is the comport selection stored in the registry?

I don't think this has anything to do with S&T as it does not automatically change COM ports. The problem may be related to the USB GPS not resetting properly after a disconnect. Then GPS Gate cannot find the GPS when it is plugged in again.

Terry

Instead of Fransom try using Xport and see if you have the same problem. When I was using the Pharos GPS puck that came with S&T I had really good luck with it. The only advantage of the Franson program is if you are using a Garmin device that doesn't output NMEA and you need to convert the Garmin protocol to NMEA protocol

Best of all it's free. XPort

Another program that I currently use but is a little more technical to set up is Eterlogic Virtual Serial Ports Emulator which is also free for the 32 bit version. It does several types of serial port emulation but splitter is the only one you'd most likely need. Cool thing about it is all your outputs have the same Com number, if you set it to output Com1 then all your GPS mapping program use Com1 and it allows up to 8 program to hook to that com port
Eterlogic - VSPE: tool for serial ports emulation

I have a problem with Microsoft Streets and Trips, too. When I use Franson GPS Gate via Virtual port, the Streets & Trips with recognize when you scan it. But when you connect it, the connection will be lost.

I have the following string

$NVGLL,3842.6420,N,01528.2060,E,230052.3,A,A*54
$NVHDT,157.2,T*3B
$NVMWV,358.00,R,15.00,N,A*1F
$NVVBW,15.7,,A,15.6,0.5,A,,,,*71
$NVVTG,159.0,T,,,15.6,N,28.9,K,A*43
$NVZDA,230053.0,27,04,2010,02,00*5E
$NVGGA,230052.99,3842.6380,N,01528.2080,E,1,,,43.4,M,,,,*2F
$NVGLL,3842.6380,N,01528.2080,E,230052.98,A,A*65
$NVHDT,157.0,T*39
$NVMWV,2.00,R,15.00,N,A*13
$NVVBW,15.7,,A,15.6,0.5,A,,,,*71

Where did those strings come from?
They don't look like typical NMEA sentences. NMEA sentences all start with $GP and would look something like this:

$GPGSV,4,1,14,03,40,057,29,06,28,049,26,07,83,340,25,08,43,305,21*74
$GPGSV,4,2,14,10,07,299,19,11,05,159,22,13,43,196,33,19,60,097,32*74
$GPGSV,4,3,14,23,15,174,25,25,74,116,31,27,73,313,32,28,16,253,24*75
$GPGSV,4,4,14,48,25,229,,51,36,199,27*7B
$GPGLL,4458.73340,N,09310.01233,W,223454.00,A,A*7B
$GPRMC,223455.00,A,4458.74259,N,09310.01312,W,33.209,357.07,140708,,,A*46
$GPVTG,357.07,T,,M,33.209,N,61.536,K,A*37
$GPGGA,223455.00,4458.74259,N,09310.01312,W,1,08,1.30,288.5,M,-31.0,M,,*61

I wonder if your GPS is in Sirf mode and needs to be reset. What GPS device is it?

Terry

Those are correct NMEA Sequence. SeaClear and GeoNav and even Franson GPS Gate can recognize it and can plot the coordinates accurately. Microsoft Street cant read it.

Hi centrix5, and welcome to the forum. What GPS receiver is it? Does it have a name and model written on it? Approximately how old is the unit?

I'm using the Sperry IBS System. it has GPS NMEA 183, Wind Data 183 and Gyro Data NMEA 183.

An Integrated Bridge System for car navigation?

What are you driving, an amphibious assault vehicle or something?

NV is just a proprietary prefix like Garmin using PG or Magellan and Motorola using PM prefixes. the last 3 letters are the actual GPS data prefix. Most programs will convert, it's not a big deal code wise but obviously Microsoft didn't bother to include that code

Do you think there is a program that can convert it to a recognizable format for Microsoft?

Which of the three protocols is it currently set to? Will setting it to GPS NMEA 183 do the $GP prefixes instead of the NV prefixes?

...ken...

Yeah, something like that will do.

Just got a cheap Chinese GPS USB dongle. It worked out of the box with pretty much every other piece of software; not so with MS Streets&Trips 2010 trial version. Same message until...

I got Franson GPSGate version 2.6

I configure output to a virtual COM5 port (different from COM15 when I plug the dongle in a USB port). Right after that Street&Trips recognize my GPS dongle right away

The question here is:

Is it worth the 45 CDN dollars for the MS S&T 2010?
+ 39 US dollars for Franson GPSGate?
+ 15 CDN dollars for the GPS USB dongle?

I guess I will give it a try for the next 14 days

Results to follow...

Forgot to mention

Running in HP Windows 7 laptop

Will be also testing in XP SP3 32 bit

Finally, I will try the Xport software with XP laptop

There is a version of GPS Gate Express for around US $13 that will do the job and xport should work too. However, what you have learned is S&T is fussy about its GPS and the cheapest approach is to buy it with a GPS.

Terry

Well, it's not really fussy about its GPS. It will work just fine with any GPS receiver that outputs standard NMEA data.

The problem is that it is absolutely limited to one single setting to receive the data from the GPS. It will only receive data through a COM port and it must be set to 4800 bps. This is still astonishing to me in 2010, soon 2011, that Microsoft can't do better than that.

...ken...

You can certainly look at it that way but it doesn't help in the short term. The best idea is buy a GPS that matches the software you want to use. Rather than buy a GPS and hope it works with the software you want to try.

Terry

Not universally good advice. It's advice I support completely if someone is looking at Streets&Trips because the bundled receiver is pretty decent. And the communications options are so limited.

But it's not something I would push for someone looking at DeLorme Street Atlas. First, the LT-40 that comes bundled with Street Atlas isn't very impressive. Second, Street Atlas has modern communication options so it will work, easily, with any GPS receiver. That's really the way it should be.

...ken...