Hi all.

I am a long time Laptop GPS user but am now running into road blocks from Garmin and am looking for some advice as to how to proceed. I have been reading several of the threads and reviews but am still a bit foggy on how to proceed forward from my current setup.

On a Windows XP laptop I have been using for seversl years, a Garmin 18 USB receiver with 2 map sets that have been updated with each update as they became avaiable. Mapsource City Navigator North America and City Navigator Australia, both updated to 2009 versions. The GPS software used is Garmin nRoute.

Now that nRoute is no longer being suported/updated by Garmin, and they have stopped producing updates for the non-NT maps, my maps are quickly getting out of date. The myGarmin site is telling me there are updates available for my maps, but of course they will not work on my setup as the map updates are now all NT maps.

I am looking for advise as to the best course of action to keep my laptop GPS system running and with current maps. It seems that Garmin indicates if I purchase the Mobile PC software my GPS 18 USB should work, but my current mapsets will not. They are also a bit shakey on answering if I do purchase Mobile PC, that if I were to have multiple mapsets, that it can switch between multiple maps as the nRoute software did. Thus if I were to get Mobile PC with North America maps, could the City Navigator Australia 2010 software be loaded and then swap easily bach and forth.

Am I looking at replacing everything I have used over the years, or can I salvage some of it and still keep current? Or best just to throw it all out and start again. All these years Garmin has been very supporting, but man now I almost feel abandond by Garmin

Thoughts appreciated.

Mike

NT maps will work with nRoute. The problem is Garmin has changed the data layout possibly to make a smaller file size. However a program is available for download that can convert current maps to a version that works with MapSource 6.13.7 and therefore nRoute.

<edit>Broken link removed</edit>

If you are happy with nRoute and the GPS18, stick with it!

Although the software version of Garmin Mobile PC will work with your GPS18, your present maps won't. You also would not be able to add maps via MapSource or download updates of locked maps. If you are interested in Mobile PC, you will need the version that includes a GPS (USB 20x or BT 10x). That version can support maps you could unlock to the included GPS. Its time to get rid of that GPS18 anyway; I know it is magnetic and waterproof but that is because you need to mount it outside just to use it.

Switching between maps in Mobile PC is almost as easy as nRoute.

Terry

Thanks for the info Terry. For now I will investigate getting and using a map converter to use with Mapsource and continue with nRoute. Just to be sure, my Mapsource version is actually 6.15.6, newer - I assume as with most software, a newer version is still compatible - yes?

Now as to converting - does it matter if the product is a locked or not product? It would reason that it could be unlocked in mapsource first, and then nRoute would be able to pickup and use the map software. Correct?

I can then take some time to investigate better a more modern solution with a newer faster GPS sensor and software.

Thanks again. Mike

Using a standard installation, The DVD would put a .gmap folder at C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\GARMIN\Maps. The map could then be unlocked to your GPS18 using MapSource 6.15.6 and would display properly. However, you would not be able to see it listed in nRoute.

MapReverseConverter would use that .gmap folder to create a new map folder at a location of your choosing (e.g. C:\Garmin) and modify the registry to make that map available to any version of MapSource and nRoute. You should rename or backup and delete the original .gmap folder. You do not need a copy of MapSource 6.13.7.

Terry

OK - understanding of what should happen is good, but proceedure is still amiss. The Garmin 2010 map update is a download - self extracting .exe, not a DVD. When the download is launched it checks for the registered GPS and finds the GPS 18 and then I get stuck at your GPS does not support NT maps. Do map updates for this proceedure only work if I can find maps/updates that come on DVD? There seems to be no way into the update through Mapsource, as until the update is unziped, there is no new map for mapsource to see.

I think Ken in Regina said the same thing about the download and an unsupported product. You can only use the downloaded updates for a device that supports that version. Otherwise, you need a DVD to start. Did you try Winzip or a regular unzip program to see if you could get the download to expand somewhat? If so, there might be another way to bypass that. If not, you should contact Garmin and get your money back.

I wonder if the NT product would unlock to an unsupported device?

Terry

Thanks for all the support Terry. It appears this is mostly a dead end. I was able to unzip with winzip, then convert to non-NT maps. But still ran into more issues with the unlock, with invalid product, etc. I tried a keygen, but then needed the Map ID or FID. So got a program to try and pull the Map ID - just gets really messy. It seems maybe it is time to get a new GPS anyways. It was no problem getting money back from Garmin as it was their myGarmin that indicated to me incorrectly that this may was an update available for me - when it actually should not have indicated such.

Now I am still hesitant because of a comment by Garmin support during my trials. So - If i was to purchase Garmin Mobile PC with a new GPS device, with say City Nav North America, then go ahead and buy City Nav Australia/NZ 2010 lifetime NT Maps - which only comes as a download - can this second mapset be unlocked and added to Mobile PC? Garmin support says NO! Where the confusion came is that the CNAUS 2010 came up as an update available for my CNAUS 2009 non-NT maps. So if the 2010 is truly only an update available as a download, is that the downfall point?

On the otherhand. From my research on the forum, if I get MobilePC with hardware, it seems that all my current unlocked Non-NT maps would be usable - is this a correct statement? And if so is that with the new hardware, or only with the old registered GPS 18? If they would wirk with the new hardware, then possibly the update software from 2009 non-NT to 2010 NT would be valid. Or am I barking up the perverbial wrong tree? Possibly the old maps only work with the software only version, in which case I become stuck at the same point, unable to load multiple maps in an updateable environment.

Mike

I could not see how to use a unzip program with my download so don't know what you ended up with. Did you try unlocking the gmap folder with MapSource and your GPS18 before converting it?

You cannot add a legally unlocked map to the software version of Mobile PC. If the map was never locked in the first place, it will work with Mobile PC. You would use MapSource to transfer it just as with other Garmin GPS such as the Nuvi.

I can't say about the Australia maps but others have added Europe maps to GPS versions of North American Mobile PC. I think they used DVD versions but can't say for sure. I can not comment about downloadable updates other than the ones I have dealt with for my Nuvi. Those install a version for MapSource on the computer. I can't use them with Mobile PC as I have the software version. If I had the hardware version, they would still not work as they would be locked to the wrong GPS. Clear as mud!

In this group, we do not condone or discuss illegal methods of using any program . MapReverseConverter does not fall into this category as the converted data must still be legally unlocked.

Terry

I just asked Winzip to look at the exe file from the download and it waqs all the files and folders and was able to extract them easily. I tried to unlock both the original and the converted files (the gmap folder) but got the same message. It appears the problem I run into is the product key that Garmin supplies with the download, only works with the built in install program - that gets me stuck at devise not supported (non NT devise with NT map files). This product key is n ot the same as an unlock code. Possibly if I were to ask Garmin support thay might determine an unlock code for me that would work with the unlock in Mapsource. But, for me, going through this routine to unlock and convert for all future updates on multiple maps will be cumbersom. As my GPS is old school, I am now leaning towards updating the hardware. Thus I did not ask Garmin for any further help with unlocking, as that would only end up with this update locked to my old GPS, then if I do update hardware, would need to purchase the map again for a new GPS. I will just try to get Garmin to confirm that the CNAUS 2010 lifetime and will in fact unlock into the MobilePC CNNA version.

One more question - does MobilePC w hardware and North America maps come with the new avialable lifetime maps? Or will that likely be only available as a future update.

Mike

Lifetime map updates are available for the hardware version of Mobile PC.

Terry

Hello Everyone.

First post here, and I've been reading this forum until my eyes are sore! Thanks to all the knowledgeable people who post here!

This thread bears on what I'm trying to do right now. I have downloaded nRoute (v.2.7.5) and am trying to get maps from City Navigator NT 2010 to work with the program. I want to send the map file and program to my friend in Norway and have him plans some routes for some travelling we'll do together.

I have a copy of the map file named gmapsupp.img in a folder in My Documents. I have downloaded the MapReverseConverter utility as recommended above, but when I try to specify the target folder, it tells me that the folder "contains no convertable map file." As well, this is the strangest input window because it won't accept any keyboard commands... You can't enter anything manually. (BTW, the maps are opened and work fine with GMPC)

Does the target folder containing the map file have to have a .gmap suffix? Do I have to rename the map file to something else? I have tried gmapbmap.img with no luck.

Any suggestions and help are greatly appreciated.

-Phil

It does not come with the lifetime updates. As Terry said, you can purchase them later. When you get your Mobile PC, create a MyGarmin account (or use your existing one) and register the new receiver. Then you can order the lifetime updates for that receiver.

...ken...

Phil,

I would highly recommend that your friend use Google Earth to do the planning. Your friend can save routes and send them to you to look at. Much easier than what you are trying to do. And it's legal.

...ken...

MapReverseConverter does not work with compressed img files. You need the gmap folder in maps. If you don't have that, you can't convert the maps.

Terry

Don't get me wrong! I'm trying to get a program and maps that we can both use for some trip planning and then be available to us when I go over there soon.

I have no "maps" or .gmap folder as has been suggested above... (C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\GARMIN\Maps) I have Garmin Mobile PC installed from DVD with the 20x receiver, and City Navigator NT 2010 Europe which I purchased separately (also on DVD) In C:\Documents and Settings, there is no "All Users" sub-folder! There is a Garmin folder, with garmin Mobile PC in it. This folder contains four other folders and numerous files. Among these is gmapbmap.img, which I assume is the basemap..., gmapprom.img which I take to be the maps pre-loaded into GMPC, and gmapsupp.img, which is the European maps installed from DVD...? There is no .gmap file that I can find anywhere.

If I wanted to send GMPC and it's associated map files to my friend in Europe, you might have reason to scold me, but nRoute is a freely downloadable program that has been discontinued by Garmin, as I understand. It's available in a zillion places on the net. Besides which, If he wanted to buy a receiver there to try to use the City Navigator maps, wouldn't he have to buy an unlock code, since the maps seem to automatically unlock themselves to my receiver here...? Garmin would get their pound of flesh somehow!

I am using a Dell netbook with a Dell version of Windows XP. Is it possible that this version of XP is truncating this file system in some way?

Did you try a search for the folder listed or at least gmap? Maybe you don't have all your views turned on. Maybe you are not signed in with administrative privileges. Do you have MapSource on the computer?

GMPC would be of little value for your friend unless you send your 20x with it.

Terry

It took me at least 10 minutes to find the .gmap folder. In Windows Explorer, you have to go into Tools/FolderOptions/View. There are three different settings but I don't know which does the trick. I enabled all three: system folders, hidden files&folders, and protected operating system files. (I don't think it's the last one).

I used the convert program to get my CNNA 2010.30 into nRoute (2.7.6 is the newest I found). I get all the detail but today I discovered that when my GPSMAP 76CSx is connected, all the detail goes away and the bottom right corner says "Map detail locked". This is because I have two GPS: a GPSMAP 76CSx and a Nuvi 255w. The CNNA is from an update from the Nuvi so is not unlocked to the 76CSx. The Nuvi does not output location data, so it can't be used with nRoute.

So for me, unless I missed something, putting CNNA into nRoute doesn't help me any. I might as well only look at it in MapSource. nRoute works for me as a "chartplotter" with MetroGuide Canada and BlueChart (v9.0).

Download a trial version of GPS Gate. It can take the GPS signal from your 76Csx and put out the appropriate type of data on a COM port that nRoute will like. Because nRoute cannot ID the 76Csx, it will work with the maps if they are unlocked. If it does what you want GPS Gate Express is an inexpensive version that will do the job when the trial expires.

Terry

You can get there from the Control panel - Folder Options as well. The 3 discussed are on the View tab. One radio button to select and 2 boxes to uncheck.

Terry

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Yes I did. I have tried gamp, .gmap and a few others, but the only thing that results from a search are the above-listed files.

I DO have all views turned on.

I AM signed on... and I'm the only person to use the computer.

Map Source IS installed. v.6.15.7 This whole system was bought only last week...

If you read my post carefully, that's exactly what I said..."If he wanted to buy a receiver there to try to use the City Navigator maps, wouldn't he have to buy an unlock code, since the maps seem to automatically unlock themselves to my receiver here...? "

If you see the map product listed in the map dropdown in MapSource, then the .gmap folder is installed at the location I listed above. That is where MapSource 6.15.x looks for it. If the product isn't listed in MapSource, you don't have that version installed.

Terry

If the map shows up in MapSource then it's got to be somewhere! The "SpaceMonger" program is useful. Download the free v1.4.0 or the 30 trial for v2.1.1. It maps out your drive and you can easily see directories whose contents take up a lot of space.

SpaceMonger: Old SpaceMonger v1.x

Here's where the problem lies, I think...

I don't know that much about Map Source from my reading yet, but nothing is showing up in the dropdown menu as outlined above. Yet Garmin Mobile PC shows Western Europe right down to the maximum detail. It doesn't show parts of Eastern Europe or the rest of the world (outside of Canada and USA) in the same detail.

According to what you fellows are saying, the City Navigator maps shouldn't show up in GMPC if they don't show up in Map Source, right? But they do...

There are three map sets listed in GMPC: CN North America NT 2010.10 (size 1178 Mb) CN Europe NT 2010.10 (size 1714 Mb) and Worldwide Autoroute DEM Basemap NR (size 94.9 Mb) I know where the .img files are located and GMPC recognizes when I delete one or the other... (I tried...) I'm just struggling to see how they got there...

I reckon I'm gonna throw in the towel with nRoute if I can't make those maps work with the program, and hope and pray that Grmin Mobile PC keeps working well. (BTW, I've added the trial version of GPS Gate too)

Just sayin'.

nRoute's not an issue. The maps are an issue. You said you wanted to send nRoute AND the maps. That's a no-no. Garmin and Navteq (Garmin's map supplier for most map products) get real exercised at the thought of someone sharing their maps. They take great pains to make that difficult, if not impossible. We customers are the ones who have to bear the pain.

For example, there's a whole lot going on here to cause confusion. That's partly because the subject of Garmin's various map products and protection strategies are a real mishmash and partly because there are two related, but different, topics being discussed in this thread .. yours and Rick's.

As a result, Terry and Rick are leading you down a garden path about where the maps should be. You're wasting your time because those maps aren't there. It's not intentional. They didn't read your response to me carefully enough and overlooked the fact that you are trying to use your Mobile PC maps. That's simply not going to work.

Because....

The maps that come with Mobile PC are alread compiled. You can't do with them what you want to do.

The maps the other two are trying to help you find are the maps that you buy seperately as City Navigator (North America, Europe, whatever) on a DVD. When you install them from the DVD they get put where Terry and Rick are trying to point you. Since those aren't the maps you are trying to use, they aren't there.

If you did have those maps, they are uncompiled. They allow you to use Mapsource to select portions of, say, North America and compile them into a "gmapsupp.img" file to load into a Garmin GPS device (Mobile PC is just another Garmin GPS device as far as Mapsource and the maps are concerned).

In order to use the reverse converter to convert City Navigator maps back to a format that nRoute can use, you first need the full uncompiled City Navigator product from the Mapsource City Navigator DVD to start from.

You are better off to take my earlier suggestion. Tell your friend to do the planning in Google Earth. That way the two of you can share routes and plans back and forth using Google Earth (just save and email .KML files back and forth with the suggested routes in them ). When you get to the point where you have some routes you agree on you can convert them to GPX files, load them into Mapsource and transfer them to Mobile PC.

So much simpler.

...ken...

Because you don't have the Mapsource City Navigator North America or Mapsource City Navigator Europe maps installed on your computer.

Because you've somehow managed to get the compiled City Navigator Europe maps installed in your Mobile PC.

Because City Navigator Europe has lots of good data for Western Europe but there's not so much available for much of Eastern Europe. Garmin's product information on their web site makes that clear. If you read the product description it details exactly which European countries have detailed coverage and which do not.

The detail you see in Canada and USA is because you also have got the compiled City Navigator North America map installed in your Mobile PC.

The stuff you see in the rest of the world (outside of the details in Europe and North America) is because Mobile PC also includes a basemap with gross data about the rest of the world: major roads and cities and bodies of water.

What you are seeing is exactly what you should expect to see. Because...

Yes. That's what you have installed in Mobile PC: compiled versions of CN NA, CN Europe and the World Basemap. And no Mapsource maps installed on your PC, so nothing for Mapsource to show you.

Yes. You and your friend grab a copy of Google Earth, if you don't already have it installed, and get right at it. It will be easy and fun and productive. And there's no reason Mobile PC shouldn't continue to work just fine ... as long as you stop messing about with its files.

...ken...

I thought the DVD of the European maps would have installed to MapSource and you would have to create img files for GMPC. You are saying the one you have installed the compiled maps directly to GMPC. If that is how it works, then you would not see them in your MapSource dropdown, no gmap folder would have been created and you can't use MapReverseConverter

Terry

I just looked back at my post where I said Terry and Rick were leading Phil down the garden path. That was written after a long day's drive. I should know better than to get anywhere near a keyboard under those conditions.

I apologize for the implication it might leave some folks. My intention was not to accuse Terry and Rick of anything. I just wanted to illustrate that any question about Garmin's maps is potentially very complicated. All it takes is overlooking one or two small details and you can end up chasing your tail very quickly.

Sorry about that, guys. I won't promise never to do it again. If I haven't learned by this ripe old age, the odds that I ever will are pretty small.

...ken...

When I posted that nRoute runs with my converted CNNA maps, but the "Map detail" gets "locked" (disappears) as soon as I connect my GPSMAP 76CSx, Terry posted:

Terry, this indeed does work!

It seems strange though. Garmin intends that the CNNA that I have is locked to my Nuvi 255w, but still allows it to be loaded to a PC for viewing/planning, etc. They disable "turn-by-turn" features due to licensing restrictions (a window popped up once saying that) but here is a simple way to defeat the restriction! It seems strange because all their other protection schemes are (I assume) rather robust.

My attempts to get my converted CNNA maps recognized on a laptop simply by copying the converted files didn't work for MapSource or nRoute. I only copied the directory of maps. I did not try to copy the registry keys from one machine to another, thinking the system must be more sophisticated than that. No matter, since I legally downloaded and saved my CNNA 2010.30 update and installed it directly on both machines and then ran the conversion on both machines. I didn't bother comparing the registry entries to see if they were the same or different.

All of this was really just out of interest to see that there was some interoperability and sharing of map data, just to make me feel good. I decided I don't need it though. I wouldn't drive around with a laptop in my vehicle since I own the Nuvi 255w and bought the Lifetime updates. Even then, I have MetroGuide Canada which is close enough to CNNA anyway, and if I'm just "looking" at maps, Google Maps do the job.

So, the Nuvi 255w CNNA goes in the van (and my pocket), and the 76CSx with Titan 35012 attenna, laptop, BlueCharts for BC Coast and the Virgin Islands, and nRoute serve as my chartplotter. The issue remains that nRoute is only just adequate (nowhere near MapTech for example), and nRoute and my Bluecharts are both frozen as far as updates go. Still, I think the setup will be OK for some years to come. I always have up-to-date paper charts on board that are used for crucial detail (rocks, for example!).

Export the registry key that MapReverseConverter created on the original computer. On the target computer,edit the .reg file to point to the location you placed the files (if it is different) and merge it.

Terry

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