I am currently using an EverMore BT-R900. I have noticed a little bit of a problem when I am moving in canyons, hills, trees, yet my handheld Garmin eTrex Vista does not have any problems. From what I have read, I would not expect these problems from this unit, or am I expecting too much from this unit. I am considering a new receiver. Having read many pages here, I am considering the BT-Q818X, but perhaps an outside mount like one of the GlobalSats might be in order. Does anyone have any recommendations? I am using MS Streets and Trips 2010 (And like it very much).
Assuming you have Bluetooth on your laptop, the 818x should be an excellent GPS device. Possibly close to the equal of your eTrex. If you are considering using it as a USB device, it will not work directly with Streets & Trips as its USB data rate will be 115,200 bps, far exceeding S&T limit of 4800 bps. This is not an issue with Bluetooth.
Terry
Terry
Frog,
You didn't specify how you use/mount the two devices.
If you are using your eTrex handheld away from the vehicle but your EverMore is always sitting, say, on the dash, it's not a fair comparison.
If you place the eTrex in the same location as the EverMore normally sits in these situations, does it still work better than the EverMore?
Conversely, if you take the EverMore outside the vehicle in the same way you probably use the eTrex, does the eTrex still work better than the EverMore?
No matter where you place a GPS receiver inside a vehicle, the vehicle roof and side pillars will always block the reception from some of the available satellites. So it's important to know whether the better performance of the eTrex is because of its technology or simply because the way you use it gives it a better view of all possible satellites. Or possibly a bit of both.
It's important to know that the comparison is exactly apples to apples before any recommendations will be very useful to you.
Which eTrex Legend model do you have? The older Legend or Legend C? Or the newer Legend H or HCx?
...ken...
You didn't specify how you use/mount the two devices.
If you are using your eTrex handheld away from the vehicle but your EverMore is always sitting, say, on the dash, it's not a fair comparison.
If you place the eTrex in the same location as the EverMore normally sits in these situations, does it still work better than the EverMore?
Conversely, if you take the EverMore outside the vehicle in the same way you probably use the eTrex, does the eTrex still work better than the EverMore?
No matter where you place a GPS receiver inside a vehicle, the vehicle roof and side pillars will always block the reception from some of the available satellites. So it's important to know whether the better performance of the eTrex is because of its technology or simply because the way you use it gives it a better view of all possible satellites. Or possibly a bit of both.
It's important to know that the comparison is exactly apples to apples before any recommendations will be very useful to you.
Which eTrex Legend model do you have? The older Legend or Legend C? Or the newer Legend H or HCx?
...ken...
The Evermore is a SirfStar III receiver, a very reliable device. However, there are more modern GPS chipsets. The BT-818x for example, uses the MTK 2 chipset which is at least 2 generations newer. It should work better in adverse conditions than the Evermore and have improved battery life.
As Ken suggests, placement of the receiver is as important as the device itself.
Terry
As Ken suggests, placement of the receiver is as important as the device itself.
Terry
Quote:
Frog,
You didn't specify how you use/mount the two devices.
Which eTrex Legend model do you have? The older Legend or Legend C? Or the newer Legend H or HCx?
...ken...
You didn't specify how you use/mount the two devices.
Which eTrex Legend model do you have? The older Legend or Legend C? Or the newer Legend H or HCx?
...ken...
When I started noticing the problems I switched to the eTrex using National Geographic Topo. When I did not have any problems, I did a side-by-side comparison on the hood of my truck, with the Garmin disconnected. Granted, I was in a pretty good valley, the northern most marker a, and the satellite lock took some time, but the Garmin did lock, the EverMore never did.
On my second comparison both were side by side on the dashboard in the southern marker b. This time both did lock, but the Garmin was much quicker, about 50 seconds. The EverMore was about 90 seconds.
As far as the model of my eTrex, it is the original eTrex Vista.
I know it is a little old, but as long as I have my map and compass as backup, it keeps me safe and in the right direction.
Quote:
Assuming you have Bluetooth on your laptop, the 818x should be an excellent GPS device. Possibly close to the equal of your eTrex. If you are considering using it as a USB device, it will not work directly with Streets & Trips as its USB data rate will be 115,200 bps, far exceeding S&T limit of 4800 bps. This is not an issue with Bluetooth.
Terry
Terry
I am curious what you think about an external mount. Ken's comment on the "shell effect" has me thinking.
GPS Gate can be used to reduce the data rate of the 818x when used in USB mode. It will translate the 115,200 bps of the GPS to a data rate S&T will work with (4800 bps). The utilities provided with the GPS will only modify the refresh rate. That must set be a 1 Hz for S&T.
I wouldn't consider your Evermore or the QStarz for external mounting. Neither is waterproof. The QStarz model requires less signal than the Evermore and locks faster so the improvement, even on the dash would be noticable in adverse conditions. If your older ETrex can obtain lock, I'm sure the QStarz will too.
If you think external mounting is the answer, consider the Globalsat USB BU-353. It is SirfStar III as is your Evermore but also magnetic and waterproof. Outside mounting is not a problem for that GPS.
Terry
I wouldn't consider your Evermore or the QStarz for external mounting. Neither is waterproof. The QStarz model requires less signal than the Evermore and locks faster so the improvement, even on the dash would be noticable in adverse conditions. If your older ETrex can obtain lock, I'm sure the QStarz will too.
If you think external mounting is the answer, consider the Globalsat USB BU-353. It is SirfStar III as is your Evermore but also magnetic and waterproof. Outside mounting is not a problem for that GPS.
Terry
From the topo map it's obvious why the differences in getting a lock between the two locations. Location "a" will be much more difficult than location "b". Having said that, if your original Legend is getting a lock in those locations you should be able to get a lock as quickly in similar locations with something like the BU-353 that Terry mentioned.
In situations like Location "a", mounting outside on the roof makes a huge difference. In the Canadian Rockies there's a place called 3 Valley Gap where I lose reception with anything mounted inside the vehicle but with my external antenna on the roof I can still maintain a three-satellite lock through there.
...ken...
In situations like Location "a", mounting outside on the roof makes a huge difference. In the Canadian Rockies there's a place called 3 Valley Gap where I lose reception with anything mounted inside the vehicle but with my external antenna on the roof I can still maintain a three-satellite lock through there.
...ken...
Thanks so much, I'll have a look at the BU-353.
I use a BU-353 in my truck (18 wheeler). It's mounted on a ledge on the passenger door. The ONLY time I lose a GPS lock is when I go through tunnels. I travel all over the US and don't have any issues with it whatsoever. We're based in West Virginia, and there are quite a few deep, narrow valleys that I travel through on a regular basis. These can be lines with cliffs and overhanging trees with a perfect signal.
From everything I have read, the advice I received, and malaki86's experience, it looks like the BU-353 is the solution to my problem. I will pick one up, and give it a good test drive.
I do have one question regarding running the cable through the cab of my truck. I would like to run it out the rear drain port with an O-ring seal, and then up to my roof. To do this I will need at minimum a 6 foot USB extension, perhaps more, in order to hide it and keep it out of the way. Has anyone run a standard USB extension, or will I need to use an Active Repeater Cable?
I do have one question regarding running the cable through the cab of my truck. I would like to run it out the rear drain port with an O-ring seal, and then up to my roof. To do this I will need at minimum a 6 foot USB extension, perhaps more, in order to hide it and keep it out of the way. Has anyone run a standard USB extension, or will I need to use an Active Repeater Cable?
A 6 foot USB extension cable should not pose any problems with the digital signal. If you are concerned, make sure you get a good quality extension (not one from a dollar store). How do you plan getting the USB connector through an o ring seal? It is permanently connected.
Terry
Terry
Maybe you are thinking of an GPS active antenna These generally come with an mcx connector not much larger than the cable. Unfortunately, not many GPS receivers have a port for them. I know my Holux GPSlim 236 does but the ones discussed here do not.
Terry
Terry
Quote:
A 6 foot USB extension cable should not pose any problems with the digital signal. If you are concerned, make sure you get a good quality extension (not one from a dollar store). How do you plan getting the USB connector through an o ring seal? It is permanently connected.
Terry
Terry
It does have an electrical pass-through plug and is large enough for the USB head to pass through. I will pass the cable backwards from the antenna into the cab. If I put the connection to the extension cable on the outside of the cab, I will be able to take the GPS unit in. Obviously, I will have to waterproof this connection. (I will have to think a little on that one.) If I put an insulating cover over the USB cable, I can follow my electrical conduit from the rear of the cab, then up into the cab. The other end would lead to the top between the cab and the bed of the truck.
As you can tell, I really want to keep the antenna cable out of the way, and looking good. So, do you see any problems with this theory? (Please list them in level of importance.)
Passing the cable through the window just seemed too easy. LOL
Sounds good to me. The 353 is small and wouldn't attract much attention on the cab roof but a way to remove it temporarily is always safer.
I can't quite visualize how the 353's 5 foot cable would reach from the roof to a convenient cross connect point and stay hidden. But I was never very good at visualizing anyway! When I used an active antenna, the hood or cowl was good enough and I could just slip it under the hood when not in use.
Terry
I can't quite visualize how the 353's 5 foot cable would reach from the roof to a convenient cross connect point and stay hidden. But I was never very good at visualizing anyway! When I used an active antenna, the hood or cowl was good enough and I could just slip it under the hood when not in use.
Terry
Terry, I think you are confused about what Frog is thinking of using to extend the cable. You can buy regular extension cables or you can buy extension cables that will boost the USB signal if you need a longer run. Here's an example:
USB Extension cable USB 2.0 Active Extension Cable Repeater
Frog, if you can manage with a 6ft extension, it should work fine. As Terry already said, be sure to get a good quality cable. Going longer can be a problem. The secret is to buy it somewhere they'll let you bring it back and trade it for full refund on an active extension if it turns out you need one.
...ken...
USB Extension cable USB 2.0 Active Extension Cable Repeater
Frog, if you can manage with a 6ft extension, it should work fine. As Terry already said, be sure to get a good quality cable. Going longer can be a problem. The secret is to buy it somewhere they'll let you bring it back and trade it for full refund on an active extension if it turns out you need one.
...ken...
No my confusion was with getting a USB plug through a grommet. Frog cleared that up quite well.
Terry
Terry
Thanks for all the help. I think I have a design for making this happen. The only problem I am having is figuring out an outside USB connection that is both water/weatherproof. I thought of perhaps using a connection box, similar to a diving connection box. I did find several waterproof ends, like this one.
However, I am not so sure about splicing a USB cable and loosing signal integrity. Granted it is only four wires, but I am hoping for a better solution.
While thinking about this, I did remember reading an article on this little gem <edit>Expired link removed</edit>. Only a couple of problems, its a bit too expensive for me for this project, no power from the BU-353, and it is not Windows 7 compatible yet. Other than that it would be perfect. Perhaps someone else might be able to use it.
Any ideas for an outside USB connection?
frog
However, I am not so sure about splicing a USB cable and loosing signal integrity. Granted it is only four wires, but I am hoping for a better solution.
While thinking about this, I did remember reading an article on this little gem <edit>Expired link removed</edit>. Only a couple of problems, its a bit too expensive for me for this project, no power from the BU-353, and it is not Windows 7 compatible yet. Other than that it would be perfect. Perhaps someone else might be able to use it.
Any ideas for an outside USB connection?
frog
The USB plug and socket are molded to their wires so the only exposed part is the connection. I'd use live rubber tape if I could get it or good electrician's tape if not. Electrician's tape is inexpensive so you could check and rewrap it periodically.
Terry
Terry
Sometimes simple is better... Water does not travel uphill... So, put the connection inside some type of small container, say a plastic bottle (without the lid), with the mouth pointing down. Create an "S" curve in the line to place the connection inside the bottle and keep all lines leading into the bottle in a vertical position. Here, the "S" is typed with the curves stacked. In your application the curves will be side by side.
So, the line coming from under the cab of the truck would turn and come up between the cab and the bed. It would be led (upward) into the bottle, leaving the connection covered inside, and exist (downward) from the bottle. Then, the line would continue (outside the bottle) and turn (upward) to continue up to the top of the cab, where the 353 is stationed. A continuous line moving up, down and up creates a sideways "S". Mounting the bottle between the cab and bed will protect it from wind and hide it from view.
Commercial electricians employ this method routinely for exterior applications. Just make sure that the bottle is placed in an area with as little wind influence as possible. I hope I have explained this well enough without a drawing. If not, let me know and I will draw a sketch for you.
So, the line coming from under the cab of the truck would turn and come up between the cab and the bed. It would be led (upward) into the bottle, leaving the connection covered inside, and exist (downward) from the bottle. Then, the line would continue (outside the bottle) and turn (upward) to continue up to the top of the cab, where the 353 is stationed. A continuous line moving up, down and up creates a sideways "S". Mounting the bottle between the cab and bed will protect it from wind and hide it from view.
Commercial electricians employ this method routinely for exterior applications. Just make sure that the bottle is placed in an area with as little wind influence as possible. I hope I have explained this well enough without a drawing. If not, let me know and I will draw a sketch for you.
Here's the diagram
So simple and so elegant!! Great solution. I'll remember that one.
In fact I'll probably use the principle to solve a problem I've been trying to get around. I've been trying to figure out how to get a cable through the wall of my shop without making a path for water to migrate in (cable comes from the roof). Simply sealing it with silicone or something isn't enough to make me comfortable. But if I allow for a "drip" bend below the point where the cable comes through the wall, the water will drip down the cable on either side of the bend. Super idea!! Thanks.
...ken...
In fact I'll probably use the principle to solve a problem I've been trying to get around. I've been trying to figure out how to get a cable through the wall of my shop without making a path for water to migrate in (cable comes from the roof). Simply sealing it with silicone or something isn't enough to make me comfortable. But if I allow for a "drip" bend below the point where the cable comes through the wall, the water will drip down the cable on either side of the bend. Super idea!! Thanks.
...ken...
Quote:
Sometimes simple is better... Water does not travel uphill... So, put the connection inside some type of small container, say a plastic bottle (without the lid), with the mouth pointing down. Create an "S" curve in the line to place the connection inside the bottle and keep all lines leading into the bottle in a vertical position. Here, the "S" is typed with the curves stacked. In your application the curves will be side by side.
It doesn't even have to be very large. Thanks for the sketch. This is going to help me out immensely.
I tip my hat to you t1dunn!
I have ordered my parts, and should be able to get started on this next week. I will start the search for my container tomorrow after work.
frog
Quote:
I will start the search for my container tomorrow after work.
...ken...
Glad that old electricians trick helped... I take no credit... I am most pleased to have been able to lend a hand as so many on this forum have been so gracious to help me. Please keep us informed on the remainder of the install...
Please excuse my absence. I have been away from home for a few days due to work, but will be back on this project when I get home Saturday. I understand my parts are waiting on me at home.
Here is an update on my project.
I have pretty much finished part 1, getting the USB and antenna installed.
First I made a little adjustment to the configuration. I did not realize that the BU-353 was so small. (I really should check specs more) It is small enough that I can easily slip it through the drain holes in the bed of the truck. This gave me the advantage of not having to make a connection outside the truck. This also gave me the advantage of having a live USB in the bed of my truck. More on that latter.
The antenna easily slips between the cab and the camper shell, and is easily hidden. It is also very easy to take in.
I took the rig for a short drive just to test everything out, and could not believe how fast I received a lock. I will take it out to a few close canyons tomorrow, but I think that problem is solved.
I have a few shots to show my progress. Again, thanks for all the help. I will move on to part 2 after tomorrows test drive.
I have pretty much finished part 1, getting the USB and antenna installed.
First I made a little adjustment to the configuration. I did not realize that the BU-353 was so small. (I really should check specs more) It is small enough that I can easily slip it through the drain holes in the bed of the truck. This gave me the advantage of not having to make a connection outside the truck. This also gave me the advantage of having a live USB in the bed of my truck. More on that latter.
The antenna easily slips between the cab and the camper shell, and is easily hidden. It is also very easy to take in.
I took the rig for a short drive just to test everything out, and could not believe how fast I received a lock. I will take it out to a few close canyons tomorrow, but I think that problem is solved.
I have a few shots to show my progress. Again, thanks for all the help. I will move on to part 2 after tomorrows test drive.
Nice work on the install.
Just a tip: if the magnet isn't strong enough, you can use a thick double-sided tape that's made for outdoor use. You can find it at auto parts stores like Auto Zone, Advance Auto, etc. Look for moulding tape made for automotive use. I had to use that on my truck because the doors are made of aluminum.
Just a tip: if the magnet isn't strong enough, you can use a thick double-sided tape that's made for outdoor use. You can find it at auto parts stores like Auto Zone, Advance Auto, etc. Look for moulding tape made for automotive use. I had to use that on my truck because the doors are made of aluminum.
Thanks for that suggestion, I was actually a little concerned about the magnet holding. I could see me driving along and stopping to find just a bare wire under the truck. (The image of Chevy Chase in the movie Vacation came to mind.)
Is this tape hard to remove if I want to take the antenna in?
Is this tape hard to remove if I want to take the antenna in?
I took my new GPS for a test drive today, and I must admit that I am more than impressed.
I picked out several very difficult sites, including a couple of deep valleys that I have never gotten a lock, and this little GPS locked in without any problems. In fact, the cold lock was so fast I could not even get my programs open before it was locked. You guys really nailed down the hardware problems.
My next step is to find and put in my laptop mount. I am also going to see if I can put a small low signal webcam in the back. This way I will be able to see my dogs in their kennels (as well as the thermometer) while I am driving. With the live repeater USB in the back, I should be able to us a small USB splitter (hub) without much signal degradation. When I get that set up I will let you know how it is going.
I picked out several very difficult sites, including a couple of deep valleys that I have never gotten a lock, and this little GPS locked in without any problems. In fact, the cold lock was so fast I could not even get my programs open before it was locked. You guys really nailed down the hardware problems.
My next step is to find and put in my laptop mount. I am also going to see if I can put a small low signal webcam in the back. This way I will be able to see my dogs in their kennels (as well as the thermometer) while I am driving. With the live repeater USB in the back, I should be able to us a small USB splitter (hub) without much signal degradation. When I get that set up I will let you know how it is going.
That sounds like quite a set up. You should not have any problems with the magnet on the GPS. They are very strong and the GPS is quite aerodynamic. Make sure the surface you attach it to is flat.
Terry
Terry
For the tape, no - it's easy to remove. It's not a foam rubber double-sided tape like you normally see. It'll be more like a sticky rubber substance that's approximately 1/32nd to 1/64th of an inch thick. To remove it, you basically "roll" it off, starting in the corner.
I use that stuff for mounting everything in my truck now (inside and out). It's easy to remove, leaves zero residue and is extremely strong.
I use that stuff for mounting everything in my truck now (inside and out). It's easy to remove, leaves zero residue and is extremely strong.
That stuff is the same as is used for the "temporary" sticker for my GPS dashboard mount. Really strong .. strong enough to make an excellent permanent mount. It's great. The only thing to be aware of is that it can take a bit of prying to get it loose and the longer it's in place the harder it is to pry it loose and roll it off. After four years under the dashboard mount on my old Honda the 2" oval patch took more than five minutes to get completely removed.
...ken...
...ken...
Here's a link for the tape I used:
AutoZone.com | 1/2 in. x 15 ft. Molding Tape | 1/2 in. x 15 ft. Molding Tape
AutoZone.com | 1/2 in. x 15 ft. Molding Tape | 1/2 in. x 15 ft. Molding Tape
Frog,
Thanks for all the effort to make the pictures with notations and to post them. Great job on the install!
Thanks for all the effort to make the pictures with notations and to post them. Great job on the install!
Hi all, here is a little update on my project.
First let me thanks malaki86 for the tape advice. I picked some up, but did not apply it before I went on a little trip up in the mountains yesterday. After hitting a couple of good ruts, holes, and some branches on an old logging road, I found out the tape was very necessary. Fortunately I did not lose the antenna, and I had the tape with me.
I have finally finished part 2, installing a camera and hub without losing any signal. I used an older camera, that I plan on replacing. It still works well.
Now on to part 3, the laptop mounting. I am still working on that part, and will post a couple of questions on my thread regarding mounts. I am also in the market for a new converter, and will read up on the best brands shortly.
First let me thanks malaki86 for the tape advice. I picked some up, but did not apply it before I went on a little trip up in the mountains yesterday. After hitting a couple of good ruts, holes, and some branches on an old logging road, I found out the tape was very necessary. Fortunately I did not lose the antenna, and I had the tape with me.
I have finally finished part 2, installing a camera and hub without losing any signal. I used an older camera, that I plan on replacing. It still works well.
Now on to part 3, the laptop mounting. I am still working on that part, and will post a couple of questions on my thread regarding mounts. I am also in the market for a new converter, and will read up on the best brands shortly.