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1- S&T keys 2010 operation
2- Documentation
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S&T Keys 2010 Software main thread

MisterMoonlight,

I see from the main thread that you only have XP. I would be happy to test on Vista if ready in the next week or so, then I will be installing Windows 7 and could also test on that if desired.

Is there a test script that you use, or do I just try to hit all the functionality blindly?

Tom Bernardi

I just added it to my Vista laptop as that's the one with S&T 2010 and it loaded fine, Tom. You can probably test it on Vista right now.

Terry

Tom said:

Yep my old laptop is win xp only. And my new desktop... yep also

A user already reported it was working under win 7, but you may test it under vista and report your results...

I really appreciate the On-Screen Keyboard feature of S&T Keys (I know it is not new to 2010). If I use my Viliv S5 in 270 degree portrait mode, half of the native OSK is not visible. But with a click in the Keys options, I can pull up the MSFT OSK which fits and works just fine.

Well done, MisterMoonlight.

SpadesFlush said:
I don't use this feature myself, because my laptop does not have a touch screen interface, but i am happy to see that at least one user is needing it. So l'll try to keep and debug it correctly in the future ...

MisterMoonligh, I bet there are many more than just one user using the touch-screen interface of S&T Keys. Keep up the great work, and have a nice weekend!

Marvin said:
I have no doubt the touch screen interface of S&T Keys (F4 popup menu) is used (i am myself using it with my mouse at home), it is more the On Screen Keyboard (OSK) function popup i was not sure any user was using at all .

Hi MisterMoonlight! Just downloaded S&T Keys 2010 and I love your program! Thanks for all your hard work. I know I'll use it frequently.
Just one question (so far). Is F8 (favorite destinations) only available when the F4 menu is open? It doesn't work when the menu is closed. (The other "F" functions seem to work fine without the menu being open. I am running Win 7 on an Acer Aspire One D250 netbook.

Gadgetgirl said:
F8 hotkey is available when you navigate in fullscreen only. If not in fullscreen, you must press <F4> than <F8> (or the F8 touchscreen button in the menu). The reason why it is not available when not in fullscreen is that F8 is an important function that show/hide pushpin balloon information and i didn't want to remove that S&T feature by giving the key a second function.

So when you are not in fullscreen, if you are using the keyboard, just press F4 (to get the popup menu) then F8

You can see this in 2009 online manual by looking in help screen (or press F1 to get the help screen). You will see that F8 hotkey is only there in fullscreen in the help menu:

S&T Keys 2009 online manual

see section 1.1

Ok, thanks! That makes sense. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a bug. I see now in the F1 menu that it is a Full Screen function. This is probably my favorite Key so far.

I can not seem to get Keys to start with the last saved map. I have checked and unchecked the box in the options menu with the same result. Running S&T on a Dell Laptop w/ Vista.

Muddler

Mine doesn't either. It always starts with a new map, even with the option selected. I have my regularly used files on my desktop and also use the Win 7 "jump lists".

For which version of keys are you talking about?

I have tried this weekend the 2009 version and it started the last map file correctly. But if you are using the trial version of S&T, it won't...

Mine is 2010 Hotkeys for MSS&T 2010.

Unless something changed in recent versions, the feature shouldn't open the last saved file, but rather it should open the last used file.

In effect, the feature attempts to open the #1 file which is listed on the main menu of your Streets & Trips -> File -> 1.

Thanks Marvin for the precision. I didn't see this little detail.

So let's try this:

1- Starts S&T then manually open the .est map file you want.
2- Then close S&T.
3- Make sure the option in S&T Keys to open the last used file is selected.
4- Now start S&T Keys (or press <F2> (or <scroll llock> if configured as the start key)). This should start S&T.
5- Let's see if the last used file at step #1 is now automatically opened at S&T startup.
6- Please report the result

I know that it is working correctly in S&T Keys 2009, but i cannot verify with the 2010 version myself at the moment...

Running S&T Keys 2010...NO GPS (on stationary PC)...opens a virgin map, not the last-used file although that file shows as number 1 in the files drop-down list.

Thanks Spadesflush

It looks like a bug related to the S&T Keys 2010 version only (what was your OS version for curiosity). I will look into it when i have free spare time...

Win 7 Pro 32-bit.

Me too. Opened a file. Closed. Started S&T Keys 2010 (F2) - opens a new file.

S&T 2010
Keys 2010
Win 7 HP (32-bit)

P. S. This is not a big issue to me; I don't think I care about opening the last file. Perhaps it is the ability to have multiple S&T files open in separate windows that de-sensitizes me to this feature.

SpadesFlush said:

It should be noted that S&T Keys can only control a single S&T or Autoroute window at a time and not any other window open to see a different S&T/autoroute document.

This feature (automatically open last used file), i am using it myself mostly while traveling, which is useful when the long way travel is a single file you use for many days (weeks). This allow to start S&T with always the current traveling file and avoid the unnecessary steps to open the file manually. It has no use for a route that is beginning at lunch and end few hours later (because big chance you won't shutdown your laptop and restart it before the end of using the route file)...

While this does seem to be correct that Keys can CONTROL only one window at a time, you can have other map windows open at the same time that work in the conventional way, i. e., as if there were no Keys installed.

SpadesFlush said:

Yes sure you can open any map document you want. But there are some bugs and potential problems by doing so and using S&T Keys in these situations:

1- Open one map windows in S&T and one in Autoroute. This one will cause no problem and S&T Keys will control only one of them (the one selected in S&T Keys option menu).

2- Open 2 map windows in S&T while you control it with S&T Keys. You will get many different problems here. S&T keys won't be able to differentiate which map it would control and you may use S&T Keys hotkeys that will apply to the wrong map window (generally the foreground active window will be operated by S&T Keys and not necessary the 1st map window that was opened). This is specially a problem while using S&T keys hotkeys (without any gui), and you may give a command to the wrong unexpected window. You may get very weird behavior here, especially if you press a hotkey that is processing for a long time and switch to another map window. Not recommended while driving...

3- Open 2 map windows in autoroute while you control it with S&T Keys (AR Keys). Same problem as situation 2 above.

As soon as I downloaded the hot keys file, I moved it to the desktop as instructed. Immediately after doing that I tried to open S&T and encountered a licensing problem, which reinstalling doesn't even fix. I purchased the software legit from Best Buy.

I can't even delete the hot keys file. It says I need permission. I am the owner of my laptop, which permission do I need?

Hey tooldad,

For the permissions thing, it would be helpful if you would tell us what operating system is on your laptop. Without that, we're kind of flying blind.

I've seen others with the Streets & Trips licensing problem. It seems kind of random. As far as I know the only way to get it sorted is to phone Microsoft. The reports back here are that they are quite helpful to get it resolved for you.

...ken...

Took care of the S&T hot keys. What was happening is that I moved the file over without unzipping and extracting. Once I moved it back to the original folder with the other parts/files, it deleted, no problems.

Thanks for the reply. I am going to call Microsoft today on my plan hour. I am a teacher who drives a truck for a farmer and delivers hay on weekends. Kind of a weird mix, I know. But I like being on the road.

I want the S&T because of the larger screen, but also for the music player and I have a computer log book. This way i only have to take my laptop rather than the laptop, gps, and mp3 player.

As Ken's message implies, it is not altogether clear what your problem is.

However, it may be the way you are trying to start Streets & Trips. You may be clicking on a desktop icon that got installed and that might be the problem. However, if you go to the folder where S&T was installed(probably under Program Files) you should be able to see an application file there with a S&T icon and the file name of "Streets." Double-click that to see if that will start the application. If it does, you might want to drag that file to your desktop to create a working icon and delete the other one above.

If it does not work, tell us more as Ken suggests and maybe we can figure out what is/is not happening.

This information is excellent. I plan on navigating in full screen mode almost exclusively, and will be using a wireless mouse to enable the various options. Our traveling style often results in "going around the block" before parking for a stop. Until we complete our activity at the stop, I would think it not wise to delete that stop, but would also not like rerouting to be initiated. Would this be the time to use the "pause" command? Does S&T remain in the pause state until I use the "pause" command a second time? Is the delete command operational while navigation is paused? I also anticipate that it would be advisable to use a second map open in the background, which is not being used for navigation, to keep from getting lost while "going around the block". Or could the map being used for navigation, but in the "pause" mode, serve the same purpose? Thanks for any response you would like to make.

Ron

ron4adams said:
Yes i agree, you should not delete it until it is not needed anymore...

a) it is not necessary if you just disable the autoreroute s&t option. This way you can move around your waypt freely with the gps icon active. Using the pause command will make you loose your current gps location which could be usefull to help you reacing your destination

Yes pause is really pause, you can press one time to pause, another time to restart. It will simply continue where you are.

It is really not necessary, in all these years i used S&T with S&T keys, i never started a second map. There is many way to deal with this situation.

1-) if you want to stay in full screen or not with gps icon active:

fullscreen:
a) Press "A" hot key so S&T release control of the map.
b) press the pgup hotkey a couple of time to zomm out the map and use the cursors key to move the map around.
c) when finished, press "A" hotkey to get the control of the map

or

window mode:
a) Press "A" hot key so S&T release control of the map.
b) press <F11> key to get out of full screen mode
c) move the map with the mouse
d) press <F11> key to return in fullscreen mode
e) when finished, press "A" hotkey to get the control of the map

2- You may also use the pause key at some point to disable the gps icon and your a similar procedure than case 1 above, but frankly, i don't see the benefit if you are looking for a short moment to figure out the actual route around the block. Personnaly i always prefer to keep the gps on the screen if you are moving at the same time.

I think i explained it. Yes you could, pause mode is perfect to pause for a short moment and restart.

You should notice that if you use S&T keys calendar navigation mode, pause mode will insert extra error in the route time estimates. Pause mode is the only effective way to avoid long route recalculation and calendar mode time estimates long recalculation (perfect if you want to pause for a short moment).

Thanks Mistermoonlight,

I just received my new netbook yesterday from e-cost. As soon as I get S&T downloaded I will begin taking short "practice" trips before we begin our long RV trip for the summer. I will use many of your suggestions simulating some anticipated "bumps" that usually occur on our trips.

Ron

I have several additional questions about navigating in full screen mode. When I reach a stop I am anticipating placing my netbook in sleep mode while stopped. When we return to our RV, wake up the netbook, and resume our trip does S&T automatically navigate me toward the "next" stop on our prepared route? Assume the reroute function has been disabled. Would I only have to use the f3 function if we get "off route", and can't find the appropriate road without help? To use f3 or delete stop functions do I have to leave the full screen mode? How does S&T know which stop to delete when using this command? I don't think I understand the "hot key" function. While in full screen "hot key A", means to simply strike the letter A on the key board? I apologize for asking so many questions before I even begin using the software, but some of these will be difficult to simulate, and it would be better to be able to anticipate what should be done under certain conditions.

ron4adams said:
You can just press the pause key (in full screen or not), then make your laptop hibernate or sleeping... When you get out from sleep, just press pause key again, you will continue where you left off...

While using S&T with S&T keys, you won't usually use F3 key, but S&T Keys F5, this will compute a new route and do everything else needed...

You can do everything from full screen mode. The stop deleted is always the 1st one in the route. Usually, if you delete each stop as you pass it by, it would be the last one you have just seen (and the 1st one in the actual route)...

Yes as simple as that

You may also press the F4 key to get the onscreen menu and you will see which hotkey is associated with which action. You may also press on the associated onscreen button if you have a touch screen or a mouse...

I just took my first trial run using my new netbook with a short sample drive. The delete command worked well using both the keyboard and the touch screen from the touch pad. However, the software seemed to act inconsistently after placing the netbook in sleep mode at a stop, and then resuming the drive. Once it began navigating immediately, but on the other two stops I had to leave the full screen (f4,+, and- were not visible on screen), open the navigation pane, and restart navigation. When I do that it is a pain to always click on the "warning waiver" warning. Besides more practice is there something I am doing incorrectly?

Can you just give more details of what you are doing exactly?

Are you pressing the "pause" hotkey to stop the gps before going to sleep?

No, I park the car and close the lid. Upon returning I open the lid, touch the "power" button to wake up the netbook, and leave the parking spot. One time I was already off route and have the rerouting function disabled, so thought that was my problem. The second time I was on route, but when the computer woke up, the "keys" did not seem to be operable and the cursor was inoperable. It opened on full screen, but did not seem to be navigating. I opened the navigation pane, and pushed the "start navigation" command twice. The first time it seemed to be disengaging rather than starting the navigation function. So I pushed it again and then it returned to full screen and began operating as expected. I also have to engage the "dynamic view" each time I wake the computer up. Thanks for your advise.

Ron

As long as MSFT can afford to pay lawyers, you can expect to have to click-off that pop-up.

After several "practice" trips I am still having trouble with one aspect of operation. Consider the following hypothetical. I have consistently deleted stops which have been visited and the rerouting feature is disengaged. I go off route (to park, shop, or whatever) and hibernate the netbook. I wake up the netbook. Do I need to command S&T to begin navigating? Whether I know how to "get back on route" or not, should I use the f3 key at this time? The two times this sequence of events actually occurred S&T started once and did not start once. I think this is the only operating event that I have had difficulty with so far. Thanks for your input.

Ron

It is possible your GPS loses power in Hibernate mode. This means that, depending on how long you have it hibernating, it may have take longer to lock into satellites again after a return from that mode.

Terry

As Terry said, always make certain your GPS has got a positional fix and is giving it to S&T before trying to persuade S&T to do anything with routing. If the GPS isn't yet telling S&T where it is right now, the results of any attempt to navigate will be unpredictable.

...ken...

Da!!! I should have thought of that being the case when the "cursor" was a dull red rather than the flashing bright red, right? I will try again today. So, if S&T is getting a signal, I need do nothing after waking up the netbook, and it will continue navigating the loaded map (even if I am off route)? One other question. On several occasions it seems as though the S&T keys stop functioning. I start a "trip" by double clicking on the keys icon. Then when S&T opens I load the planned route from my saved file. The navigation function is engaged in full screen and I begin the trip. Is this the appropriate method for using S&T for navigation?

Perhaps Mister Moonlight can confirm this but it seems to me that back a few posts he suggested that if you are using Keys while navigating you should hit the Keys "Pause" key before you close the lid on your computer. You said you aren't doing that.

I suggest that for your next test you do it the way Mister Moonlight suggests -- hit Pause first, then close lid -- and see where that takes you. I think Mister Moonlight thought some of those issues might go away if you pause S&T before letting the computer go to sleep.

...ken...

I just returned from a practice run, and was bothered by a specific behavior occurring each time I deleted a stop. The navigation had to reset to "use dynamic turn view". If this is the view I wish to use exclusively is there some default setting I have failed to use? One other problem was when I purposely drove off route by quite a degree (actually drove 180 degrees off route), and then paused the system. When I restarted the navigation function (used the pause key), S&T did not resume in full screen mode. I had return to the "start up" procedure to get it to open navigation in full screen mode. This I don't expect assistance on since it only occurred once, and I probably did something wrong which may not happen again.

ron4adams:

I have lost this thread for a while now, and i can see you have a lot of questions. Let see if i can answer a couple

Ok, when using the "delete stop" function of S&T keys in the recent versions, it is functionnaly the same thing as if you were manually doing these steps:

1-Stop gps navigation (manually in S&T)
2- delete the 1st stop manually in the route
3- Press <F5> to compute a new route and restart navigation.

So the options you configured in the navigation tab of panel options of S&T Keys will be what you will get when you are deleting a stop (see figure 6 of the online manual here S&T Keys 2010 online manual

So choose different navigate option in the panel of figure 6 and it would restart the way you like it

Using the pause key alone won't make you go out of full screen. You probably have done something else . Did you use the <SHIFT><PAUSE> hotkey instead (this one will get you out of full screen mode)? Or maybe you used S&T <F3> (manual reroute in S&T) or the autoreroute option of S&T is still active.

I suggest 1st to disable the auto-reroute option of S&T while you are becoming familiar with S&T Keys (see figure 3c of S&T Keys online manual). Using <F3> S&T function and auto-reroute generally does not happilly coexist with S&T Keys. Myself, i personnaly use the <F3> function for emergeny situation only and use S&T Keys <F5> most of the other times instead (which will do a similar job, but do additionnal tasks and also is slowlier, this is why <F3> function can be usefull sometimes).

In anycase, if by mistake you are out of fullscreen mode when pressing the <PAUSE> key, most of the times, pressing <F11> after returns you in fullscreen mode. This could be use mostly to continue after you stopped from pause and you want to restart quickly. Using <F5> S&T Keys which is longer (going into route recalculation) will always work no matter what is your actual condition to return to navigation the way you like it and configured it in S&T keys navigate tab panel options.

It is one possibility. But you need to click on S&T Keys icon only one time until you reboot your system. It stays in memory. So if you want a quick way to do it, you may assign in figure 5 (see online manual) the options you want when it is starting S&T each time. You should notice at the bottom of figure 5 that there is <F2> hotkey option (that can be changed with SCROLL LOCK key option which i find better myself because it is a seldom use key, which is not the case for <F2> key). If the <F2> hotkey option is configured, you just have to press that key (or scroll key) to start S&T and follow the options for starting procedure of figure 5. Pressing <F2> again will minimize S&T and if you close S&T, pressing the <F2> hotkey will restart it again...

There is a bug in current 2010 version (the 2009 version is ok). Normally when starting S&T, if configured in panel option of S&T Keys, it should restart with last .est file used (keeping you from opening the file yourself)...


1- General recommendation: never take your laptop going hibernate/suspend with navigation active. I have seen different scenarios where this could cause a problem (this is not related to S&T Keys). This is the reason you could use the <PAUSE> key in S&T keys to stop it quickly before. The reason for this recommandation is that there could be a gps device issue if suspend/resume is not working well on your system with your gps and drivers, etc. And S&T is very sensitive for wrong behavior of the gps data flow, going in a crash or undesirable situations...

2- Once you get out of suspend/hibernation and if you want to resume navigation, just try to wait a while before restarting navigation. This should power your gps, give it a chance to acquire a gps lock, etc. Then if you press <PAUSE> key again, or <F5> key of S&T Keys, you will have more chance to navigate immediatly, instead of getting stuck in full screen without navigation device being ready (this is not mandatory, just experiment to see what works best on your system)...

3- If you know exactly how to get back on the route (like 100 meters), don't use the <F5> or <F3> key and avoid route recalculation. Just pressing <PAUSE> key (to turn navigation on should be sufficient)... There is always a slight possibility that route recalculation could go wrong and make you use an undesirable turn that could make your route longer. I got some cases where i was very near to get back on route and route recalculation made me go in a complete idiot way making a nice unneeded turn for a few km. This chance to happen is probably bigger when your are not on your actual route and trying to reach it.

Like i already said, use the <F5> keys (will restart and calculate a new route) or <PAUSE> key (will restart were left off with the same route that was <PAUSE> previously. Use S&T <F3> just in emergency while driving and you need a quick route calculation to get out of problem (don't have time to wait for S&T Keys <F5> processing that could be much longer). <F5> keys will do a route recalculation as S&T <F3> key, but will do much more than that, to setup the navigation the way you like/configured it in S&T panel option (it could also refresh while in calendar mode, make sure you are in full screen with navigation icon visible onscreen, etc, etc). If you can follow advice 3 in previous question, simple things are sometimes better...

Warning: using <PAUSE> key should be limited to the use of stopping for a moment and restarting exactly were S&T left off later. It is the same as going in S&T navigation panel and manually turning ON/OFF the gps. But if you play with S&T after the gps was pause, you may not gently restarting navigation the way you would if you used the <F5> key instead. <F5> key has a lot of feature that will make you fall on your feet, no matter what you do in S&T, and starting navigation in always predictive configured way. Not the PAUSE key!!!


Let see of what you can try with this new information

Thank you for the extensive response. I have been practicing (need to "win over my wife" that the cost was worth it, and having few glitches while on the road will most definitely help), and it looks like the f5 key is the one that I had not found. It appears that this is the one to go to if I don't see the screen behaving the way I want it to. I will also keep the f11 key in mind, but if the next stop is a ways down the road I would probably have time to use f5 and let the system do its work.

ronadams said:

Yes you are right, this is the normal all purpose S&T Keys navigation keys. It will work in all situation, no matter how you are and returns you to the navigation favorite settings you use, making sure you are ready to navigate all the time (while calculating a new route as necessary. it also replaces <F3> normal S&T function and will do a much better and as you wish job (it is just slowlier)... <F5> will also work in calendar mode and refresh your currents route calendar estimates when used, if you activated that option in S&T Keys option panel

Don't forget it is not S&T Keys function, but normal S&T function. It only will swap from fullscreen to window mode, but won't work necessary in all situations...

As for additionnal informations: if you like navigating not in fullscreen mode, there are also others options see figure 4 (general tab in S&T Keys option panel) of online S&T Keys manual S&T Keys 2010 online manual that affect how you will navigate once you start with <F2>/<F5> keys These options are used when not in fullscreen to choose which S&T panel you want to keep onscreen or not while navigating (see "Starts with route planner or GPS task pane open" and similar options). But these options won't help you if you are always navigating in fullscreen mode. You may also like to configure in this panel (usefull on fullscreen mode) to use mouse buttons for spoken instructions: this is very usefull if you have access to a mouse or similar input device near you (nearer than your computer may be), so you may use the mouse buttons as a remote to ask for S&T spoken instructions.

With the release of MS S&T 2011, is there an upgrade to the S&T Keys in the "near" future?

Muddler

Muddler13:

As what i have seen in the comments from this thread:

http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/4201-about-s-t-keys-2011-future

It seems that there is very limited interest for a new version (only 3 requests so far in the forum).

I will just wait to see if interest is coming much higher than that before spending all that time to do it...

You can just add your vote to the above thread and it may cause some interest from other users

I will be interested in 2011 version as well. Or at least remove that restriction checking what version of Streets & Trips installed. I tired to install 2009, 2010 and then 2011 so "S&T keys" can finally run.