HomeGarmin


Garmin Mobile 10
tcassidy
I just received a Garmin Mobile 10 and would like to note a couple of items.
Software
- I can't get the XT software to work on my Toshiba E800 (2003SE). It installs fine if somewhat slowly but when I launch it, nothing happens.
- although the NT on-line viewer shows street data for my location (Ladysmith BC Canada) and DMTI Canada (the supplier for Garmin Metroguide Canada V4) is a listed supplier, there is no street data. It basically matches City Select V6 for this area.

Hardware
- appears to be superior to the GPS 10 (works indoors).
- works fine with older Garmin Que software on my PDA.
- vastly superior to built-in sensor in ASUS UMPC. I have them side by side on my desk and the UMPC sees no satellites. In the same program (iGudance V4) the Mobile 10 see 6+
-switches automatically from NMEA to Garmin mode when connected to nRoute. To restore NMEA, you must cycle the power on the Mobile 10. This is the same way the GPS 10 and GPS 18 work.

I will try it in the vehicle with the PDA later this week.
Terry
Marvin Hlavac
Terry, if my memory serves, the receiver was actually the very first Garmin unit to use SiRFstarIII chipset - that's why the nice sensitivity improvement ! I'm sorry to hear about the software compatibility issue, and the disappointment with the map data !
tcassidy
Marvin,

The ASUS R2h also supposedly uses the SirfStar III chip and I was surprised at how useless it is after all the wonderful things I had read (about the GPS chipset that is). It must be something to do with the implementation.

I didn't have high hopes for the XT software but I am considering a new IPAQ 200 series PDA so I'll hold for that.

I was very dissapointed with Garmin Ver8. I know DMTI has the information. I will stick with Canada V4 at least for the local area (and that map isn't locked!!).

Terry
Ken in Regina
Hi Terry,

I'm a little confused by your comments about the "NT online viewer" not showing street data for Ladysmith. Is the problem that the XT software won't use MG v4 properly? You seem to have that product and, if you do, it obviously works like a charm in nroute (I have it and it does). So I'm not entirely clear on where you are seeing the problem.

You're right about CNNA v8. It still only shows the street grid of Ladysmith with no names and the representation of Ladysmith Harbour is incredibly crude ... absolutely typical of Navteq data. Garmin Catrography told me that there was supposed to be an update for MG Canada out by the end of last year. I'm not holding my breath, but I would drop some serious coin to get updated DMTI data.

If you want to read quite a bit of discussion on XT, hop on over to the Brighthand forum on Garmin stuff and do a search for XT. If you have trouble finding what you are looking for, don't be shy about dropping a note in there. There are a number of folks there who have spent quite a bit of time beating their heads against XT.

Here's the most recent thread.

Another fairly recent one.

And here's a pretty long one.

...ken...
tcassidy
Ken,
I bought the Mobile 10 with the thought of updating my Bluetooth GPS AND because the Garmin on-line map viewer for City Navigator North America NT V8 shows street names for Ladysmith. I now have the product and the data is not there. I know DMTI has it because its their data in Metroguide Canada V4.

Thanks for the links on Brighthand! I will take a look at XT. I am not really concerned at the moment as the Mobile 10 works fine with my PDA with the older QUE version that came with the GPS 10. I use MG Canada V4 with that as well.

City Navigator North America NT V8 works fine on my laptop using nRoute but this thing is too large to lug around. It also works great on the UMPC except nRoute is not friendly to devices without keyboards.

Terry
tcassidy
Ken,
I read the posts on Brighthand. Just a bunch of people whining about Garmin map products not working with non-Garmin Bluetooth GPS units. As I bought the Mobile 10 with the maps, I can't comment.

I had read a review recently on XT about how wonderfully smart it was at loading on the PDA. From my experience, both via activesync and a card reader, I couldn't believe how slow and tedious the process was. Maybe my backup SD card is faulty.

The map lock may pose a problem with the built-in GPS on the UMPC, however that is so useless, I doubt I would pursue a fix.
Terry
tcassidy
Ken,
Did you say an update for Metroguide Canada!! Now that I would love to see. It seems unlikely though with Garmin and others trying to roll it all into one.

Garmin is really not in the map business. They use the map data to sell their hardware. And the competition is certainly fierce in that market right now. I have never seen such a wide variety of stand-alone devices. Certainly another commodity item now. Next they'll be selling them at the dollar store!
Terry
Ken in Regina
Terry, I and a few other Canadians have been hounding Garmin Cartography and Garmin Marketing and Garmin Customer Service, and anyone else at Garmin we can get an email address for, to get out an up to date Metroguide Canada or some equivalent product with DMTI's data in it.

I received the following from Garmin Cartography on April 16, 2007.

Quote:
Good afternoon,

This was forwarded to us the product support group and I was asked to comment back.

Cartography development has told me Garmin will update MetroGuide Canada this year. I believe you & I exchanged messages a couple of weeks ago and all I could tell you at the time was it probably would happen this year and that it was high time. That was not a lack of interest on my part…development just keeps its info very close to the vest. I straight-out asked, though, and our development person confirmed it is going to occur this year (probably sooner rather than later), and she permitted me to say it.

Could you provide me with a few examples…no need for a huge list but just a few pointers so we can communicate them to NavTeq (the City Nav data vendor)? Especially in that I would like some examples of roads that “just mysteriously end in thin air” and “gap.” Smaller towns just having roads and no attribution on the lines is something we have been wanting to stress to them for some time—to let them know DMTI is better in this department and they need to do some catch-up. We have a nice list of those compiled to forward. But if you could provide some more “for instances” on gaps in roads and the like we’ll add those, too.
I did as requested and submitted a few examples of gross differences between MGC v4 and the much newer CNNA product. I didn't do Ladysmith, but I used Castlegar, which is just as bad an example of both the lack of street names on the grid and the crappy representation of the adjacent water features.

I had forgotten that the note from Garmin Cartography was so long ago. It looks like it's time to bug them again. You should probably do the same. Just go to Garmin's Contact Us page and blast off emails to everyone on there who might have the slightest influence on getting a product update out. Be nice, but be firm that it's outrageous that a product as old as MG Canada v4 still has such superior data in so many areas versus the latest CNNA product (including CNNA 2008, which is not improved in these areas over CNNA v8). And remember that if you don't complain to Garmin, complaints elsewhere will do no good at all.

...ken...
tcassidy
Ken,
The annoying aspect is the box for CNNA NT V8 says right on it that DMTI is a supplier of data for the product. MG Canada V4 does have street names and addresses for Ladysmith. When I lived in Vancouver 3 years ago, CSNA V6 had better information for there than MG Canada V4 and I notified Garmin of each problem.
I will get off my butt and write Garmin again. Past experience had shown how little difference this made but I'm willing to try again.
Thank you
Terry
Marvin Hlavac
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
Ken,
The annoying aspect is the box for CNNA NT V8 says right on it that DMTI is a supplier of data for the product.
Even Garmin's on-line map viewer lists both Navteq and DMTI(!) as data providers. I wonder why - is it an oversight, or is some DMTI data indeed included? It would be nice to find the answer .
Ken in Regina
Terry and Marvin,

First the issue of the online map viewer... Marvin, when you mentioned that you thought DMTI was a supplier for CNNA 2008 I went and looked, as I've mentioned in another note to you elsewhere, and found the same issues continue on my "benchmark" locations. While I was there I saw the same ©DMTI line at the bottom left of the viewer pane, along with the Navteq copyright, as you guys have seen. I assumed the same as you, that meant there must be some DMTI data in CNNA 2008. I was as puzzled as you two because if there was DMTI data - even old DMTI data - those issues should have been addressed.

For me, the issue was cleared up when I later went back to look at CNNA 2008 on the online map viewer again. I had not looked at the copyright date for the DMTI data and I wanted to see if it was newer than the copyright date for MG Canada v4. Imagine my surprise when the reference to the DMTI copyright was not there; just the Navteq copyright. I've been back a couple of times and the DMTI copyright reference has not been there. I have no idea why it appeared the one time but it is (or was?) clearly an error in the map viewer when viewing CNNA 2008.

... I just took a look again and as I type this there is no DMTI reference on CNNA 2008 in the Garmin online map viewer.

Terry, I emailed Garmin Cartography and asked for a status on MG Canada update right after I entered the last note. I got a speedy reply. Here's what they have to say:

Quote:
Thank you for contacting Garmin.

I have not heard anything really new…same stuff from before. No firm commitment but “intended” at this point.

A new City Navigator will be available probably late spring or summer. I have not been able to comb through that data a ton, but I have looked at some places in Canada (some small towns) and there is some substantial improvement and fleshing out in some of the places I perused. It seems NavTeq has done some work in the smaller communities and more rural areas in Canada since the time of the last version we released so that is at least somewhat promising.
...ken...
Marvin Hlavac
So the ©DMTI was there by an error. It's good they removed it, so there is no more confusion. I have zero inside info, but my wild guess would be that Garmin may never want to pay again for DMTI map data, since it appears Navteq is little-by-little improving data even in the "some small towns" in Canada. It would be nice from the user point of view - especially if one lives in the affected area, but it may simply not be worth Garmin's effort and investment. Especially since no Garmin's competitor uses DMTI data, or that no Garmin's competitor uses data that is better than that of Navteq. But let's wait and see. I hope I'm wrong.
tcassidy
The DVD supplied with Garmin Mobile XT which contains City Navigator North America NT v8 has the following Logo "map data provided by dmti spatial"
Also a note on the bottom stating "CanMap,DMTI Spatial and the DMTI Spatial logo are trademarks of DMTI Spacial Inc., Markam Ontario."
It certainly made me expect data I had seen in MG Canada V4.

Also note that when I looked, the on-line viewer for City Navigator North America v8 and City Navigator North America NT v8 were different even though the information said they were the same. Specifically the non-NT viewer did not include street names for Ladysmith.

Terry
Ken in Regina
Hi Terry,

I just looked at CNNA v8 NT in the online map viewer. It does indeed have the DMTI/Canmap copyright line that you describe on the distribution DVD. It does have street names in Ladysmith as you mentioned.

I've never looked at v8 NT before because I don't have anything that will use NT maps. I own the standard v8 already so I can't ever be bothered to mess with the online viewer when I can just fire up Mapsource on my PC and find what I want to see with so much less pain.

It's interesting that your copyright information matches what's on the online viewer but your data seems to match whats on the regular v8 distribution - eg. no street names on Ladysmith. I would not have expected two products with the same version number to have different data, and they don't in the actual distribution, apparently. I wonder why the online version is different? Strange...

Do you have v8 NT loaded in Mapsource or nroute on your PC?

...ken...
tcassidy
Ken,
Yes, I have it on my main computer and laptop.
Something you would like checked for comparison?

Terry
© laptopgpsworld.com About