Experienced Streets and Trips 2010 and AutoRoute 2010 users will know that the application takes over control of the visible map when GPS is active. This can be a bit frustrating if you want to view another part of the map or the entire route.
An easy way of dealing with this is to have a second Window open in Streets & Trips / AutoRoute with whatever map view you require behind the active Window where GPS is active and controlling. In this way if you want to see something other than what the GPS has locked focus on, just switch to the background Window. When finished, revert to the Window with the active GPS and resume your navigating. It is probably slightly better to open both Windows before activating the GPS.
As MisterMoonlight has suggested, it may even be possible to have two maps with active GPS with a clever use of Xport (or possibly other such applications) to facilitate a port emulation to achieve that end.
An easy way of dealing with this is to have a second Window open in Streets & Trips / AutoRoute with whatever map view you require behind the active Window where GPS is active and controlling. In this way if you want to see something other than what the GPS has locked focus on, just switch to the background Window. When finished, revert to the Window with the active GPS and resume your navigating. It is probably slightly better to open both Windows before activating the GPS.
As MisterMoonlight has suggested, it may even be possible to have two maps with active GPS with a clever use of Xport (or possibly other such applications) to facilitate a port emulation to achieve that end.
SpadesFlush, this is a good tip. Not too many mapping applications allow running two instances simultaneously, but this is still possible in Streets & Trips and AutoRoute.
This tip has just been added to Tips & Tricks for Streets & Trips.
This tip has just been added to Tips & Tricks for Streets & Trips.
Thanks, Marvin. The idea was triggered by questions raised by thoughtful Forum members in another thread. Together, we make progress.
As an additionnal comment about using two versions of microsoft mapping software with S&T Keys:
If user is using S&T Keys 2010, it will allow to have both Streets & Trips and AutoRoute 2010 open at the same time. S&T Keys will only control the one that is assigned to be controlled in S&T Keys option general tab panel. User can also change the controlled application in S&T keys without closing neither Streets & Trips neither AutoRoute and it will gracefully switch control from one to the other. But i doubt any user would ever use that switching feature
The problem will come if two instances of S&T are opened at the same time. I guess that S&T Keys would be confused and not work correctly all the time, because it won't know which one it should control...
If user is using S&T Keys 2010, it will allow to have both Streets & Trips and AutoRoute 2010 open at the same time. S&T Keys will only control the one that is assigned to be controlled in S&T Keys option general tab panel. User can also change the controlled application in S&T keys without closing neither Streets & Trips neither AutoRoute and it will gracefully switch control from one to the other. But i doubt any user would ever use that switching feature
The problem will come if two instances of S&T are opened at the same time. I guess that S&T Keys would be confused and not work correctly all the time, because it won't know which one it should control...
Won't Keys just control just the window that's open? How would it 'see' an window that is minimized?
I cannot see using Streets & Trips and AutoRoute at the same time as a practical matter so I would not worry about conflicts.
I cannot see using Streets & Trips and AutoRoute at the same time as a practical matter so I would not worry about conflicts.
Spadeflush said:
Like i said, there are no problems with 2 differents application. Some problems may happen with 2 instances of S&T. For example, the hotkey to minimize S&T and restore it (F2 or scroll lock), may get into problems. There are probably other problems that i don't think about now...
I cannot see using Streets & Trips and AutoRoute at the same time as a pratical matter so I would not worry about conflicts.
A different approach of using 2 instances of S&T would be is to use S&T Keys built-in functions instead. Using 2 instances of S&T is just a heavier load that could be uninteresting on slow systems (or resource tight old systems).
When navigating in full screen, by just pressing "S&T Keys" hotkey "A" (Arrange map view), this will release the control of the map by Streets & Trips while the GPS icon stays on screen. Than it is possible to quickly press <PGUP> hotkey to zoom out and get an overview of the map trip. Cursors keys can also be used carefully to move the map. When completed, pressing the "A" hotkey again will simply give S&T control of the map viewing again.
So no application switching, potential S&T keys conflicts, system resource eating, etc.
As an alternative, when in full screen, user after pushing "A" hotkeys can press <F11> than drag the map with the mouse then use the zoom in/out control, then press again <F11>, "A" hotkeys...
Personally, I am using "A", <PGUP>, <PGDN> and cursor keys trick while staying in full-screen navigation. You just have to take care of zooming out before using the cursor keys to avoid losing where is the GPS icon on the map later.
When navigating in full screen, by just pressing "S&T Keys" hotkey "A" (Arrange map view), this will release the control of the map by Streets & Trips while the GPS icon stays on screen. Than it is possible to quickly press <PGUP> hotkey to zoom out and get an overview of the map trip. Cursors keys can also be used carefully to move the map. When completed, pressing the "A" hotkey again will simply give S&T control of the map viewing again.
So no application switching, potential S&T keys conflicts, system resource eating, etc.
As an alternative, when in full screen, user after pushing "A" hotkeys can press <F11> than drag the map with the mouse then use the zoom in/out control, then press again <F11>, "A" hotkeys...
Personally, I am using "A", <PGUP>, <PGDN> and cursor keys trick while staying in full-screen navigation. You just have to take care of zooming out before using the cursor keys to avoid losing where is the GPS icon on the map later.
First off, the ST Keys version I am running is probably for the 2007 (3.2.3.0, maybe). Unfortunately, with my system, I have found that newer versions take much longer to zoom in and out. So, the following may not apply to the later versions. But I kinda think it will.
Now, back on subject. When I used multiple maps, all of the functions worked on the currently active map.
When I used <F2>, it would minimize the current map displayed. If another map displayed under the first one, <F2> would minimize that one. Once all maps were minimized, I found <F2> would bring up (maximize) the most recently closed map.
As background, I have used the push pins to mark house numbers. Some that I have delivered to. Others as reference points, in case I have a delivery on that street. On a few occasions, my system was dreadfully slow. (Turned out dust in the CPU heat sink was causing the CPU to heat quite high.) So I would run 2 maps, using XPort, to let both have access to the GPS. The background map would be stationary on the intended target/pushpin. The Foreground map was puspin free, so that it did not have as much data to shift, as I moved.
Now, back on subject. When I used multiple maps, all of the functions worked on the currently active map.
When I used <F2>, it would minimize the current map displayed. If another map displayed under the first one, <F2> would minimize that one. Once all maps were minimized, I found <F2> would bring up (maximize) the most recently closed map.
As background, I have used the push pins to mark house numbers. Some that I have delivered to. Others as reference points, in case I have a delivery on that street. On a few occasions, my system was dreadfully slow. (Turned out dust in the CPU heat sink was causing the CPU to heat quite high.) So I would run 2 maps, using XPort, to let both have access to the GPS. The background map would be stationary on the intended target/pushpin. The Foreground map was puspin free, so that it did not have as much data to shift, as I moved.
jsnoik:
I am curious, what kind of configuration you have:
Computer type (OS, RAM, etc)
S&T version
S&T Keys version
I don't know if it could useful to you, but did you try to use S&T keys favorite destinations list instead of using pushpins?
I have some difficulties to understand that you cannot have a simpler setup than having 2 maps open for driving? But there is not enough details so i can understand what is your problem?
Do you have hundreds of pushpins to mark spots you want to go?
Just having a few pushpins make it really slow (did you try that with only one S&T window)?
I am curious, what kind of configuration you have:
Computer type (OS, RAM, etc)
S&T version
S&T Keys version
I don't know if it could useful to you, but did you try to use S&T keys favorite destinations list instead of using pushpins?
I have some difficulties to understand that you cannot have a simpler setup than having 2 maps open for driving? But there is not enough details so i can understand what is your problem?
Do you have hundreds of pushpins to mark spots you want to go?
Just having a few pushpins make it really slow (did you try that with only one S&T window)?
MisterMoonlight:
I have a Dell Inspiron 1300 1.7MHz cpu, 2 meg ram, Windows XP.
I am currently running ST 2009 and have previously ran ST 2007. (Which is still on the system.)
The version number I quoted above appears to be for the compiler used to create the Keys program. I am probably using 2.22.002 or 2.23.006, that I can tell from my downloads.
I have to head off to work, now. I will give you some more details of my experience when I get a chance.
John
I have a Dell Inspiron 1300 1.7MHz cpu, 2 meg ram, Windows XP.
I am currently running ST 2009 and have previously ran ST 2007. (Which is still on the system.)
The version number I quoted above appears to be for the compiler used to create the Keys program. I am probably using 2.22.002 or 2.23.006, that I can tell from my downloads.
I have to head off to work, now. I will give you some more details of my experience when I get a chance.
John
Oh, yeah. One other quick note. I do have a LOT of push pins.
I deliver pizzas, and the push pins are house numbers.
I deliver pizzas, and the push pins are house numbers.
You have a similar computer power has mine, so I guess you should have a lot of pushpins because my system with S&T 2009 is not usually slow and does not require the use of a dual map.
Can you post your S&T 2009 .est file here just for curiosity so I can try it on my system to see if there is any improvement we can do?
The latest version of S&T Keys 2009 is that one:
S&T Keys 2009 v2.55.5
Can you post your S&T 2009 .est file here just for curiosity so I can try it on my system to see if there is any improvement we can do?
The latest version of S&T Keys 2009 is that one:
S&T Keys 2009 v2.55.5
I suspect that the main reason I had needed the two maps was CPU overheating. I currently run with only the one map, and have for a while.
Also, I have approx 3800 pushpins, and adding. The file is 1.58MB.
As the 2007 version was out of align with, and missing many streets, I trailed everywhere I went creating a map of all the streets.
At one point I figured that was slowing down my system, so I redrew all the streets, using the Draw Feature. Now, when I add a new street, I Draw it. So, when I finally post my .est, you will see the drawn streets, too.
I am going to try to post it now. But if it fails, I may try again tomorrow.
Also, I have approx 3800 pushpins, and adding. The file is 1.58MB.
As the 2007 version was out of align with, and missing many streets, I trailed everywhere I went creating a map of all the streets.
At one point I figured that was slowing down my system, so I redrew all the streets, using the Draw Feature. Now, when I add a new street, I Draw it. So, when I finally post my .est, you will see the drawn streets, too.
I am going to try to post it now. But if it fails, I may try again tomorrow.
Here is the .est file.
John, nice work on the Streets & Trips .est file of your work area.
I suspect the redrawing of the map with all the drawings must take up a lot of resources. Try to create a map file with all your pushpins, but without drawings. The drawings may be useful for new streets which are missing in the software, but it may be unnecessary to have the drawings present even for the streets that are on the map already.
I would suggest to take advantage of the newly added Hide/Show pushpins feature in Streets & Trips 2010. Show them when you need them to set you destinations, but then hide them, so they are not slowing down your system.
Again, excellent work with the file. I see that you are very well organized.
I suspect the redrawing of the map with all the drawings must take up a lot of resources. Try to create a map file with all your pushpins, but without drawings. The drawings may be useful for new streets which are missing in the software, but it may be unnecessary to have the drawings present even for the streets that are on the map already.
I would suggest to take advantage of the newly added Hide/Show pushpins feature in Streets & Trips 2010. Show them when you need them to set you destinations, but then hide them, so they are not slowing down your system.
Again, excellent work with the file. I see that you are very well organized.
I thought of cleaning up the map Marvin. But I like the contrast of the lines. I find the stock settings for the roads not enough of a contrast when I am driving and glancing at the map. I have the laptop strapped down on a board on my passenger's seat. (With no passenger, of course. )
When I am using the map, it is usually zoomed in enough not to have information overload, as it does when showing the whole area.
But, yes, the organization of the map has been very useful. And being able to draw in the streets as they are built is a bonus. At some point, I may even start a topic where people can post the new streets, or corrections, in their area for download. Time seems to be a issue most times.
John
When I am using the map, it is usually zoomed in enough not to have information overload, as it does when showing the whole area.
But, yes, the organization of the map has been very useful. And being able to draw in the streets as they are built is a bonus. At some point, I may even start a topic where people can post the new streets, or corrections, in their area for download. Time seems to be a issue most times.
John
John, the following discussion contains at least two different ideas of dealing with the night time map display. See if any of it can be used in your situation: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/117-night-mode-tip-streets-trips
jsnoik:
Incredible amount of work!!!
I agree with Marvin, the 2010 version should benefit to you cause you would be able to better control the pushpins you want to see on the map, that way it won't slow you down as much while navigating if you only display the one you need to drive to on the map.
Even on my powerful desktop zooming and playing with the file is slow. Agree also with Marvin to remove unnecessary street drawing (except for the missing streets). It has been shown in the past that drawings slow things down...
Incredible amount of work!!!
I agree with Marvin, the 2010 version should benefit to you cause you would be able to better control the pushpins you want to see on the map, that way it won't slow you down as much while navigating if you only display the one you need to drive to on the map.
Even on my powerful desktop zooming and playing with the file is slow. Agree also with Marvin to remove unnecessary street drawing (except for the missing streets). It has been shown in the past that drawings slow things down...
Experienced Streets and Trips 2010 and AutoRoute 2010 users will know that the application takes over control of the visible map when GPS is active. This can be a bit frustrating if you want to view another part of the map or the entire route.
An easy way of dealing with this is to have a second Window open in Streets & Trips / AutoRoute with whatever map view you require behind the active Window where GPS is active and controlling. In this way if you want to see something other than what the GPS has locked focus on, just switch to the background Window. When finished, revert to the Window with the active GPS and resume your navigating. It is probably slightly better to open both Windows before activating the GPS.
As MisterMoonlight has suggested, it may even be possible to have two maps with active GPS with a clever use of Xport (or possibly other such applications) to facilitate a port emulation to achieve that end.
An easy way of dealing with this is to have a second Window open in Streets & Trips / AutoRoute with whatever map view you require behind the active Window where GPS is active and controlling. In this way if you want to see something other than what the GPS has locked focus on, just switch to the background Window. When finished, revert to the Window with the active GPS and resume your navigating. It is probably slightly better to open both Windows before activating the GPS.
As MisterMoonlight has suggested, it may even be possible to have two maps with active GPS with a clever use of Xport (or possibly other such applications) to facilitate a port emulation to achieve that end.
I wouldn't say "unable" to zoom, etc., just a bit more difficult. When GPS is active and depending on the options you have selected, it can be difficult, particularly on the move. This is due to the fact that the GPS is taking readings every second and up-dating the information, such as the position of the map on the computer screen, accordingly. So, just as you, say, zoom into a spot, the map changes the view overriding your zoom. You can do things like adding your current location as a stop by using F3.
I haven't tried it, but I would think adding pushpins or new stops while on the move with GPS active would be a very tricky thing. Perhaps it is doable if you are stationary and if you have disabled "Provide navigation" and "Arrange map view:" if that is possible.
With regard to your question I don't know. You might need to experiment a bit on that.
The main thing that users should understand is that S&T really functions in two distinct modes that may not overlap: route planning and navigation. The premise seems to be that one plans the route before embarking on the route itself and then navigates against that route over the road. Re-routings are possible while navigating but substantial changes to a route are, at best, difficult.
I can remember driving from Spokane, WA to San Francisco once that I had planned as a two-day route, stopping over-night in Bend, OR. Part of the way along, I thought about doing it straight through in one day. So, I opened up a new window to calculate the route, leaving the original minimized with the GPS active. In the end, I stuck to the original plan but I suppose I could have switched to the new route and turned on the GPS and carried on.
I haven't tried it, but I would think adding pushpins or new stops while on the move with GPS active would be a very tricky thing. Perhaps it is doable if you are stationary and if you have disabled "Provide navigation" and "Arrange map view:" if that is possible.
With regard to your question
If I had a second window on which the same saved map was loaded would I be able to switch to that window, add stops or push pins, and then make the GPS active on that map? Would I need to deactivate the GPS on the other window first?
The main thing that users should understand is that S&T really functions in two distinct modes that may not overlap: route planning and navigation. The premise seems to be that one plans the route before embarking on the route itself and then navigates against that route over the road. Re-routings are possible while navigating but substantial changes to a route are, at best, difficult.
I can remember driving from Spokane, WA to San Francisco once that I had planned as a two-day route, stopping over-night in Bend, OR. Part of the way along, I thought about doing it straight through in one day. So, I opened up a new window to calculate the route, leaving the original minimized with the GPS active. In the end, I stuck to the original plan but I suppose I could have switched to the new route and turned on the GPS and carried on.
I think your last paragraph is very similar to my anticipated needs. Of course my frame of reference is that my wife is the navigator and the one who would be looking for alternatives to the planned route while "on the move". I guess as long as we are on a segment which allows for sufficient time to change the route without causing the driver (me) too much anxiety, we could disengage the GPS, make the changes, and then reengaging the GPS. A specific situation which I can anticipate is when we get to late afternoon and realize we need to find a campground. It makes sense to use the "find nearby places" feature to accomplish this task, and could be done quickly. Would you think that this would be more efficiently done with only one window or two?
Two.
Don't forget, you can then copy the pushpin from 'map 2' to 'map 1', and add that as a stop.
Thank you for your recommendation. I will practice creating two maps containing the same route just in case we need this type of modification of an active map. I have been have little success in copying and pasting stops on two different open windows. Not sure what I am doing wrong. What I have done is construct a route, then tried to copy the stops and past them into a "new" map. Will try some more.
Not Stops, Pushpins.
You just select the Pushpin (one at a time) [ctrl-c] to copy it, open the other map window and [ctrl-v] to paste it. You do not have to worry about placing the paste accurately, it will be done automatically or, as they say in Microsoft, "automagically."
Also, you need not have a route open in the new window-map. It can be a blank map from which you do your search and then paste your findings.
You just select the Pushpin (one at a time) [ctrl-c] to copy it, open the other map window and [ctrl-v] to paste it. You do not have to worry about placing the paste accurately, it will be done automatically or, as they say in Microsoft, "automagically."
Also, you need not have a route open in the new window-map. It can be a blank map from which you do your search and then paste your findings.
The thing I find annoyingly difficult for these scenarios -- planning "on the fly" -- is that Streets&Trips has no concept of "here".
That has an annoying side effects. You always have to give it a minimum of two points for a route: the Start and the End. I find that annoying when traveling. Mobile PC and iGuidance, as examples, by default use my current position (the GPS is already telling them where that is!!) as the Start, so I only have to tell them where I want to get to.
I know that sounds like a small thing, but sometimes, when you are sitting in a rest stop or by the side of the road, it's not so simple to figure out how to tell Streets&Trips where you are.
...ken...
That has an annoying side effects. You always have to give it a minimum of two points for a route: the Start and the End. I find that annoying when traveling. Mobile PC and iGuidance, as examples, by default use my current position (the GPS is already telling them where that is!!) as the Start, so I only have to tell them where I want to get to.
I know that sounds like a small thing, but sometimes, when you are sitting in a rest stop or by the side of the road, it's not so simple to figure out how to tell Streets&Trips where you are.
...ken...
Ken, can't you do F3 to get your "here"?
SpadesFlush, lets see if I have this clear. One map has the route I am traveling with the active GPS. I look for a campground (using the blank map) "near" the location I anticipate ending my day and locate a push pin at the campground's address using the "find" function. Then I can copy and paste this pin onto my active map?
I'd suggest you would grow to hate that approach if used in real time. Better to estimate your day's end and have a selection of campgrounnds of interest in that vicinity.
Terry
Terry
Ken, can't you do F3 to get your "here"?
...ken...
Just what I am discovering on my own. I think we will probably just spend some time at our last stop of the day locating a set of campgrounds in the approximate end of our day. We can disengage the GPS temporarily until we place the campground as a stop on our route, and then drive to it. I think I have been over thinking how to use the routing feature of S&T.
First of all, I must agree with Terry about planning in advance. Even if you do not want to commit yourselves before setting out on the day's travel, you could at least identify a few alternatives and then make your selection towards the end of the day.
Otherwise, what you wrote a half-hour ago above is doable.
Otherwise, what you wrote a half-hour ago above is doable.
I'd suggest you would grow to hate that approach if used in real time. Better to estimate your day's end and have a selection of campgrounnds of interest in that vicinity.
Terry
Terry
With programs like Mobile PC and iGuidance, it's really easy to do what you want because the programs know your current location and automatically use it by default as the "Start" of a route. All you need to do to get from where you are to a campground in the area is a search for your campground.
When you find it, there will be a big "GO!" button, or something similar, beside it. You just poke the button and it calculates a route and starts the route running.
Programs like these are really powerful for such interactive navigation features. On the other hand, these programs are not nearly as powerful for the pre-trip planning as Streets&Trips.
I think you've got the right idea about selecting your campground, or perhaps a couple of alternatives, at one of your stops during the day, as you get a better feel for how much farther you want to drive before calling it quits for the day. My wife and I "camp" in hotels now (we don't get to travel much these days). We generally decide sometime in the early afternoon where we want to stop and phone ahead for reservations.
...ken...
Ken you say If you have a map with POI pushpins for those sorts of places active, I think you can locate yourself with F3 and then do "Find Nearby Places". Then select the one you want as and "End" stop and compute a route in Route planner. I have never done this but I think you can.
I want to just find the nearest Wendy's/Denny's/Whatever and tell my nav software to route me there. Can I do that all from the navigation pane? I assumed you couldn't so I've never tried it.
If you have a map with POI pushpins for those sorts of places active, I think you can locate yourself with F3 and then do "Find Nearby Places". Then select the one you want as and "End" stop and compute a route in Route planner. I have never done this but I think you can.
...ken...
Of course, you are correct, Ken.
F3 works when GPS navigating. But it gives you your 'here' and then S&T can compute a new route to 'there.'
F3 works when GPS navigating. But it gives you your 'here' and then S&T can compute a new route to 'there.'
F3 does nothing in the Route Planner.
Thanks Marvin. Another one of those mystical processes that are hidden in Streets&Trips that make it so useful once you suss them out.
...ken...
...ken...
Marvin, if you follow this procedure while one or more stops have not yet been reached will S&T route you directly to the selected "Add as end" bypassing all other stops on your route? Does the 2008 version of S&T behave this way also? And this can be accomplished (by the navigator, NOT THE DRIVER) while the GPS is active and you may or not be moving, correct?
1. Ron, if you wish to add a stop to an existing route, then instead of Add as end, select Add as stop.
2. Yes, your 2008 version behaves the same way, too.
3. Yes.
2. Yes, your 2008 version behaves the same way, too.
3. Yes.
One quibble with Marvin's response: even if you add a new stop as an "End" it does not mean that it will jump all the other stops. On the contrary, it will include all the other pre-existing stops and route you to them all before the End.
Thanks Marvin and SpadesFlush, both responses give me the process which will be most efficient for our anticipated uses. For our next trip we had planned to not select potential camping spots while planning our entire route while at home, but rather wait until late in the day and look for them while on the road. The procedure outlined will give us significant flexibility for when we want to begin our search for our campground.
If you find that the frequent refreshing of GPS data interferes with your searches or re-routing, you can temporarily suspend the GPS by clicking on the stop/start button in the GPS Panel.
Finally, it is usually a good idea to pull over or stop in a rest area to attempt these re-navigatings, even if your co-driver is doing it. Five minutes stationary won't ruin your day.
Finally, it is usually a good idea to pull over or stop in a rest area to attempt these re-navigatings, even if your co-driver is doing it. Five minutes stationary won't ruin your day.
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