G'day from the Land Downunder

I found this site last night and am very impressed with what I've seen so far. I have been using GPS for a long time now both professionally and recreationally.

I am environmental consultant and usually rely on my GPS76csx, shonkymaps, T4A, paper maps and a paper notebook for doing field work. I do flora and fauna surveys, soil conservation plans and general environmental work. I am also branching out into wildlife tracking with miniature GPS collars.

Typically I load up the GPS with waypoints and head out to do field work. When I get back I download the waypoints and manipulate any data in ARCgis.

In addition to the Garmin I've got a s90i Navman for on road navigation. I must say that I am not that impressed with it. it doesn't recognise my house number and when I set off from home it wants to send me down a non existent road.

Now down to business it's time to upgrade my technology. I'd like to see if I can get a unit to do most if not all my GPS / data gathering / field GIS processing.

I have spent a large amount of time searching a number of forums and am now more confused that when I started. :-)

I am toying with the following ideas:

1. A laptop with or without touch screen, loaded with OziExpoler or similar moving map software, "talking turn GPS", ARCpad
2. A PDA with built in GPS, ARCpad like a Getac
3. A UMPC with Windows Mobile with or without a touchscreen
4. One of the 7" HD LCD GPS which seem to be in abundance on fleabay and unlock the Windows CE operating system and see how much I can cram onto it.

Sorry for the newbie questions.

Many thanks
BigPat

Need a lot more information to make useful suggestions. So much of what you need depends on exactly what data you gather, what you need to do with it, how quickly you need to do anything with it and how you travel in the field. .... Among other things.

If you do most of your field work on foot, your handheld, a camera and a paper notebook may be the optimal tools for data collection and then integrate everything when you get home or back to the office.

The larger screen personal navigation devices are still single-purpose devices that won't do anything more than navigation and capturing your track file. Great for auto navigation if you want to replace your existing unit. But as you have noted, the critical factor is the maps in the device perhaps more than the device itself.

I'm not familiar with the PDA applications you mentioned. I'll assume they will do what you want them to do, functionally. The question, as above, is whether this is a form factor that will work in the field as well as your paper notebook. Is the data entry as simple/quick/foolproof as a pencil and paper notebook? Is the screen going to be readable outdoors in bright sunlight? What happens if you drop it in a puddle or worse?

You get the idea. You need to think through how you would work with the various devices in the field and compare that to whether it would actually be better in all respects than what you have right now.

With regard to upgrading the technology, your GPSMAP76CSx is one of the best devices on the market for what you are using it for. It's a reasonably convenient size, has as good GPS technology in it as you can buy (consumer-grade, of course), is very weatherproof and has all the features you can get on such a device.

Your maps are the issue in your Navman. If you cannot upgrade the maps to more current maps, replace it with a device from a manufacturer like Garmin that provides regular updates. I realize this might be a bigger issue for Australia than for North America or Western Europe.

The map issue applies to any of your potential solutions, just as the form factors and user interface do.

I think many people do themselves a disservice when they try to cram all functions into a single device. There are uses where this makes lots of sense. There are other uses where it just makes more sense to use a number of tools that are better suited to their use.

...ken...

BigPat, also the budget is a very likely a factor. If it isn't, consider something like this: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/1561-gps-company-trimble-announces-its-1st-windows-based-portable-computer

G'day

Thanks for the responses.

I'll start with Marvin, I have had a look at the Yuma. It's an impressive piece of technology and would fit the bill for what I am after. However, when you land it in Australia and load it up with ARCpad the price approaches $6,000. Which is outside my price range.

Ken you raise a number of relevant points and I'll try and address them logically.

Field Data : I gather a range of data sets from locating single features such as dams and watering points, fence lines or farm infrastructure. In other cases it is mapping areas of habitat. In some cases it is just a case of loading preset waypoints into the GPS, going there and taking soil samples or doing a site assessment.

I am also starting to do some work with tracking wildlife fitted with mini GPS collars. In this situation you trap the target animal, fit a collar and release it. After a set period of time you trap the animal again and remove the collar. In some situations the data from the collar is downloaded in the field and the collar refitted to the animal. Hence the need to have something which will perform this function. In other cases the collar is taken off the animal and taken back to the office and the data downloaded there.

PDA Applications : ARCpad is a field GIS system which allows the user to input data directly in the field. Conversely they can prepare a draft map in the office and check it in the field. I appreciate your comments on taking notes in the field and transposing them in the office, however no matter how careful one is sometimes information gets missed. The other software I mentioned was OziExplorer. This is a moving map program which allows the user to input tracks and waypoints in the office and them run them on top of whatever map they have loaded. In my case 1:25,000 or 1:50,000 scanned and rectified topographic maps. It is widely used by the Off Road touring community here in Australia particularly in areas where conventional in car GPS units do not have map coverage.

I agree with your comments about the maps being the problem with the Navman, or any other GPS for that matter. When I got the Navman it didn't display a section of road immediately down the road from my front door. That is despite the road being built over 30 years ago. This was changed in the last upgrade I downloaded though.

I agree with you about the GPS76CSX. It is an excellent unit I and cannot fault it, except its menus can be counter intuitive at times, but that's just me. What I'd like to do is couple it with another piece of technology such as a laptop, tablet or UMPC to make data collecting easier.

I hope that makes sense.

Thanks again
BigPat

That makes sense. It sounds like the optimal solution would be a thin laptop or a netbook that you can run ARCpad and OziExplorer on.

If you can get versions of both ARCpad and OziExplorer for a PDA, add it to the list (laptop/netbook/PDA).

If all three are candidates for a single consolidated solution, we're back to form factor as the issue.

The PDA is the smallest so it would be the most desirable. But does it have the input flexibility you need? That's a two-part question:

1. Will it be easy for you to manually input data when necessary, e.g. handwriting recognition like a Palm or an onscreen keyboard?

2. Will it have the necessary connector(s) for transfering data from the tracking collars?

The laptop/netbook options make manual data entry easy because they have real keyboards. And they are most likely to have the necessary connector(s) for transfering data from the tracking collars. But even a netbook is likely to be a handful (pun intended ) in some situations in the field.

Most modern PDAs have screens that work pretty decently outdoors in sunlight. You still need to check it out when doing your selection, but you will be able to easily find one. Not so much for laptops and netbooks. Few are usable outside in bright sunlight. You will need to be very careful when selecting if you go the laptop/netbook route.

Laptops and netbooks are not generally very rugged. Most PDAs are a little more tolerant of being dropped or even getting a bit moist. Not so much with laptops and netbooks. You can buy a laptop/netbook with an SSD "hard drive" rather than a conventional hard drive to add a bit more ruggedness. If you need more data storage than the SSD provides, you can get large capacity USB flash drives and flash memory cards for reasonable prices these days.

You can use your 76CSx as the GPS receiver for the laptop/netbook/PDA but it's probably a little unwieldy outside the vehicle. The better solution would be to get a dedicated GPS receiver for the laptop/netbook and just pack the 76CSx along for those situations where using the handheld makes more sense than trying to use the laptop/netbook/PDA.

Most PDAs only work with a GPS receiver if they are Bluetooth. That's okay because there is a pretty good selection of Bluetooth GPS receivers available. They will work fine with a PDA or the laptop/netbook.

If you go the laptop/netbook route you have the added flexibility of being able to choose a USB GPS receiver. It adds a cable but eliminates worries about one more battery to keep charged (the Bluetooth receiver).

I have used my Bluetooth receiver (Garmin GPS10x) with my Palm T|X PDA for playing golf. I have an app on the Palm that lets me see the yardages to the greens from anywhere on the course if I have a Bluetooth GPS receiver. I have a Tilly hat that has a "secret" pocket in the crown of the hat. The Bluetooth receiver fits in there quite nicely and the Palm rides in a pocket on my golf bag. Pretty slick.

I have also used an external GPS antenna on my Garmin iQue 3600 for hiking. The external antenna looks exactly like a USB receiver. I put the antenna in the top of my Tilley hat with the cable running down my neck and over my shoulder to the iQue in my shirt pocket.

I know others who attach the GPS puck (Bluetooth or cabled) by velcro to the top of their shoulder epaulets or to the top of their backpack.

I don't know if any of that is helping you get closer to making a decision. I hope it's at least interesting, if not useful.

...ken...

G'day Ken

Thanks for the response I'll try and answer a few questions you raise :

"If you can get versions of both ARCpad and OziExplorer for a PDA, add it to the list (laptop/netbook/PDA)." - Yes both for Win CE and windows XP, Vista and 7

"1. Will it be easy for you to manually input data when necessary, e.g. handwriting recognition like a Palm or an onscreen keyboard?" - prefer a keyboard, my 6 year old has better hand writing than I do :-)

"2. Will it have the necessary connector(s) for transfering data from the tracking collars?" - The collars are generally downloaded via USB there is a remote option via a PDA, but require a USB host on a PDA which are hard to come by.

I have used my Bluetooth receiver (Garmin GPS10x) with my Palm T|X PDA for playing golf. I have an app on the Palm that lets me see the yardages to the greens from anywhere on the course if I have a Bluetooth GPS receiver. - What does the Royal and Ancient say about this ? :-)

I'll have a look at the bluetooth and USB GPS options on the pages you linked to.

As a tangential thought I like the look of the Ipad, but have no experience with Apple products. It will be interesting to see if / when come up with a product that in this hardware format.

Thanks again you've definitely been helpful.

BigPat

After being beat upon for a period of time the R&A has finally ruled that electronic devices such as laser rangefinders and GPS units with the greens mapped into them are really just electronic versions of the paper yardage books that have been legal for decades, albeit a tad more flexible.

But never accuse them of being soft on golfers. Even though the USGA has ruled that rocks in sand bunkers can be treated as loose impediments and moved so you don't wreck your golf club, the R&A still insists that you do not disturb anything in a sand bunker.

I know this because here in the colonies we Canucks are governed by the R&A's rules, not the USGA.

Glad I could provide a bit of assistance. There is one option that I forgot to mention. That is the UMPCs like the Viliv products. They have 5" and 7" devices that are real PCs, not PDAs. There is a 7" device with built-in navigation. And they have a lovely 10" convertible laptop/tablet. All of their products have touch-sensitive screens. I think all of them run WindowsXP.

The smaller 5" and 7" devices have the advantages of being real PCs but the disadvantages of PDAs, like onscreen keyboard rather than the real thing. Mostly that's not an issue but if you need to do a fair bit of manual data entry it might be an issue. Anyway, take a peek as just some more possibilities. We have a few users on here who have them and love them.

...ken...

From the devices I've seen, it sounds like you still need two devices.

Something like a Trimble Field Computer for your data acquisition (this is what we use for our Costa Rica stuff, and my wife does when teaching her various environmental science classes); and then a good old "sat nav" (our cheap TomTom does pretty well for the US) for navigation.

The Trimble as it stands, only has simple compass bearing navigation (ie. no good for road navigation); but it is far superior for data acquisition than any other GPS device I've used (okay I've never used true surveying equipment!). You can set various speed/sensitivity settings; collect polylines/polygons by walking or point-by-point. Individual points can be entered in various ways. As well as "this place here" we find the "distance and bearing from this point" very useful in the forest (trees and GPS don't mix!)

Richard

G'day All

Thanks for all the responses. I ended up buying a HP TM2 12.1inch touch screen laptop which converts to a tablet. The tablet feature is great which means I can carry it around in the field mapping. The next challenge is to find a mount so I can put it in the car. Anyone got any suggestions?

BigPat