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Ferries & Alaska Marine Highway routing issues in Microsoft Streets and Trips
rgs360
Hello,

I cannot get the mapping software to do several things:

1) recognize the Alaska Marine Highway
2) when adding the route from Bellingham, WA to Juneau it "drives" you to Juneau, AK which is physically impossible
3) when choosing the route from Juneau to Whittier, it ends up at Homer which is physically impossible
4) these are all common timetables which have been published for years, how is it that Microsoft in Seattle can miss this in their own back yard?

Anyone figure out how to rout through Alaska on the marine highway system?

Thanks,

James
taoyue
Welcome to the forums. :welcome:

Actually, if you look at the route, it does put you on the Alaska Marine Highway to Juneau. However, it does this by driving you to north of Juneau, and then putting you on the Alaska Marine Highway southbound to Juneau. I assume this is physically possible, as the roads in Canada do exist.

The problem is that the Route Planner plans the quickest route. The Alaska Marine Highway, since it is carried by sea on-board ships, is assigned a slower average speed than the roads on terra firma through Canada. It is debatable whether or not this is actually true, but that is what is coded in the database.

If you set the Route Planner to produce the shortest route, then it routes you along the Alaska Marine Highway, as expected. Click "More options ..." and then select "Shortest" in the dialog box. See the attached screenshots below.

You can also accomplish this routing by putting some Avoid Areas in place in Canada. Avoid Areas, like most features in Streets & Trips, are described in the Help.

The maps database in Streets & Trips is purchased from Navteq and is put into Streets & Trips in a largely automated fashion, without extensive customization. There are all sorts of weird routings that are possible as a result. The software is very customizable and can avoid most of these problems, but does require some familiarity on the part of the user. Note: timetables are not included -- the Alaska Marine Highway is treated like any other highway, and the times will not be correct.
Attached Images
route-planner.jpg   route-options.png  
SpadesFlush
What version of Streets and Trips are you using?

With S&T 2010, I have no trouble either finding the Alaska Marine Highway or incorporating it into a route. Admittedly, the first pass at constructing a route was mostly over roads with only a small portion on AMH as follows:

Summary: 1531.3 miles (2 days, 19 minutes)
DAY 1

Time
Mile
Instruction
For
Toward
9:00 AM
0.0
Depart Bellingham on N State St (East)
0.4 mi

9:00 AM
0.4
Bear RIGHT (East) onto Iowa St
0.2 mi

9:01 AM
0.6
Turn RIGHT (South) onto Ramp
109 yds
I-5
9:01 AM
0.7
Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-5
1.0 mi

9:02 AM
1.6
At exit 255, turn RIGHT onto Ramp
0.2 mi
Wa-542 / Sunset Dr / Mt Baker
9:03 AM
1.8
Turn RIGHT (East) onto SR-542 [Mt Baker Hwy]
9.9 mi

9:13 AM
11.8
Turn LEFT (North) onto SR-9 [Lawrence Rd]
6.3 mi

9:19 AM
18.1
Turn LEFT (West) onto SR-9 [S Pass Rd]
98 yds

9:19 AM
18.1
Turn RIGHT (North) onto SR-9 [Nooksack Ave]
3.3 mi

9:23 AM
21.4
Turn RIGHT (East) onto SR-9 [E Badger Rd]
4.2 mi

9:29 AM
25.5
Entering British Columbia


9:29 AM
25.5
Road name changes to Sumas Way
0.1 mi

9:29 AM
25.7
Road name changes to Hwy-11 [Sumas Way]
1.9 mi

9:32 AM
27.6
Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto TC-1
48.6 mi
Hwy-1 / Trans Canada Hwy East / Hope
10:16 AM
76.2
At exit 170, keep RIGHT onto Ramp
0.2 mi
Hwy-1 / Trans Canada Hwy East / Hope / Cache Creek / Prince George
10:16 AM
76.3
Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp
76 yds
Hwy-1 / Trans Canada Hwy / Town Centre / Cache Creek / Kamloops
10:16 AM
76.4
Bear LEFT (North-East) onto TC-1 [Flood-Hope Rd]
117.7 mi

12:23 PM
194.1
Keep STRAIGHT onto Hwy-97C [TC-1]
2.6 mi

12:27 PM
196.6
Keep LEFT to stay on Hwy-97C [TC-1]
54 yds

12:27 PM
196.6
Keep STRAIGHT onto Hwy-97 [Cariboo Hwy]
117.2 mi

2:19 PM
313.9
Turn RIGHT (North-East) onto Likely Rd
2.8 mi

2:23 PM
316.6
Turn LEFT to stay on Likely Rd
4.4 mi

2:28 PM
321.0
Turn LEFT (West) onto Mountain House Rd
10.0 mi

2:40 PM
331.0
Turn RIGHT (North-West) onto Hwy-97 [Cariboo Hwy]
59.5 mi

3:36 PM
390.5
Keep RIGHT onto Local road(s)
98 yds

3:36 PM
390.6
Keep STRAIGHT onto Hwy-97 [Cariboo Hwy]
74.4 mi

4:48 PM
465.0
Turn LEFT (South) onto TC-16 [Yellowhead Hwy]
218.4 mi

8:22 PM
683.4
Turn RIGHT (North-East) onto Tyhee Lake Rd
4.4 mi

8:28 PM
687.8
Turn RIGHT (North) onto Telkwa High Rd
0.9 mi

8:29 PM
688.7
Turn LEFT (West) onto Babine Lake Rd [Telkwa High Rd], then immediately bear RIGHT (North-West) onto Telkwa High Rd
23.9 mi

8:59 PM
712.6
Turn RIGHT (North) onto TC-16 [Yellowhead Hwy]
49.0 mi

9:50 PM
761.6
Turn RIGHT (North) onto Hwy-37 [Alaska-Stewart Hwy]
8.2 mi

10:00 PM
769.8
End of day



DAY 2


Time
Mile
Instruction
For
Toward


Check your departure time; the next stop is in a different time zone.


9:00 AM
769.8
Stay on Hwy-37 [Alaska-Stewart Hwy]
441.0 mi

4:46 PM
1208.7
Entering Yukon Territory


4:48 PM
1210.7
Turn LEFT (West) onto Hwy-1 [Alaska Hwy]
83.0 mi

6:04 PM
1293.8
Entering British Columbia


6:04 PM
1293.8
Road name changes to Hwy-97 [Alaska Hwy]
40.0 mi

6:39 PM
1333.7
Entering Yukon Territory


6:39 PM
1333.7
Road name changes to Hwy-1 [Alaska Hwy]
85.3 mi

7:58 PM
1419.0
Turn LEFT (South) onto Hwy-8
33.2 mi

8:33 PM
1452.2
Turn LEFT (South) onto Hwy-2
50.9 mi

8:51 PM
1468.5
Entering British Columbia


9:28 PM
1503.1
Entering Alaska


9:28 PM
1503.1
Road name changes to AK-98 [Klondike Hwy]
13.1 mi

9:55 PM
1516.2
Road name changes to State
109 yds

9:56 PM
1516.3
Road name changes to 23rd
0.1 mi

9:56 PM
1516.4
Road name changes to State St
1.1 mi

9:58 PM
1517.5
Turn LEFT (South-East) onto 1st, then immediately turn RIGHT (South-West) onto Broadway
0.3 mi

9:59 PM
1517.8
*Check timetable* Take Alaska Marine Hwy [Haines-Skagway Ferry] (West)


10:53 PM
1517.8
*Check timetable* Turn LEFT to stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Juneau/Auke Bay-Haines Ferry]


2:30 AM
1517.8
End of day




Check local time; this stop is in a different time zone.



DAY 3


Time
Mile
Instruction
For
Toward
9:00 AM
1517.8
Take Local road(s) (North)
32 yds

9:00 AM
1517.8
Turn RIGHT (East) onto AK-7 [Glacier Hwy]
4.0 mi

9:04 AM
1521.8
Keep STRAIGHT onto Egan Dr
1.0 mi

9:05 AM
1522.8
Bear LEFT (East) onto AK-7 [Egan Dr]
0.8 mi

9:06 AM
1523.5
Keep STRAIGHT onto Egan Dr
4.0 mi

9:11 AM
1527.6
Road name changes to AK-7 [Egan Dr]
1.0 mi

9:12 AM
1528.6
Keep STRAIGHT onto Egan Dr
2.4 mi

9:16 AM
1531.0
Turn LEFT (North) onto (S) Main St
0.3 mi

9:18 AM
1531.2
Turn RIGHT (East) onto E 6th St
153 yds

9:19 AM
1531.3
Arrive Juneau




SUMMARY
Driving distance: 1531.3 miles
Trip duration: 2 days, 19 minutes
Driving time: 26 hours, 18 minutes
Cost: $223.06

If I drag and drop a couple of points from that route to the AMH, I get the following:

Summary: 19.0 miles (2 days, 19 minutes)
DAY 1

Time
Mile
Instruction
For
Toward
9:00 AM
0.0
Depart Bellingham on N State St (East)
0.3 mi

9:00 AM
0.3
Bear RIGHT (East) onto Ohio St
0.2 mi

9:01 AM
0.4
Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-5
2.7 mi
I-5
9:03 AM
3.2
At exit 250, turn RIGHT onto Ramp
0.2 mi
Wa-11 / Old Fairhaven Pkwy / Chuckanut Dr
9:04 AM
3.4
Turn RIGHT (North-West) onto SR-11 [Old Fairhaven Pkwy]
1.3 mi

9:06 AM
4.7
Keep STRAIGHT onto Donovan Ave
164 yds

9:06 AM
4.8
Road name changes to 10th St
0.2 mi

9:06 AM
5.0
Turn LEFT (West) onto Harris Ave
0.2 mi

9:07 AM
5.2
Turn RIGHT (North) onto Local road(s)
0.3 mi

9:08 AM
5.5
*Check timetable* Take Alaska Marine Hwy [Bellingham-Ketchikan Ferry] (North)


11:33 AM
5.5
Entering British Columbia


7:21 AM
5.5
*Check timetable* Stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Bellingham-Ketchikan Ferry] (North-West)


7:25 AM
5.5
*Check timetable* Stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Bellingham-Ketchikan Ferry] (North-West)



DAY 2


Time
Mile
Instruction
For
Toward
9:03 AM
5.5
*Check timetable* Stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Bellingham-Ketchikan Ferry] (West)


2:58 PM
5.5
*Check timetable* At near Lax Kw'alaams Indian Reserve, stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Bellingham-Ketchikan Ferry] (North-West)




Check your departure time; the next stop is in a different time zone.


3:35 PM
5.5
Entering Alaska


6:24 PM
5.5
*Check timetable* Turn LEFT to stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Ketchikan-Wrangell Ferry]


11:19 PM
5.5
*Check timetable* Turn LEFT to stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Wrangell-Petersburg Ferry]


1:31 AM
5.5
*Check timetable* Turn LEFT to stay on Alaska Marine Hwy [Petersburg-Juneau Ferry]


8:33 AM
5.5
End of day




Check local time; this stop is in a different time zone.



DAY 3


Time
Mile
Instruction
For
Toward
9:00 AM
5.5
Take Local road(s) (North)
32 yds

9:00 AM
5.5
Turn RIGHT (East) onto AK-7 [Glacier Hwy]
4.0 mi

9:04 AM
9.5
Keep STRAIGHT onto Egan Dr
1.0 mi

9:05 AM
10.5
Bear LEFT (East) onto AK-7 [Egan Dr]
0.8 mi

9:06 AM
11.2
Keep STRAIGHT onto Egan Dr
4.0 mi

9:11 AM
15.3
Road name changes to AK-7 [Egan Dr]
1.0 mi

9:12 AM
16.2
Keep STRAIGHT onto Egan Dr
2.4 mi

9:16 AM
18.6
Turn LEFT (North) onto (S) Main St
0.3 mi

9:18 AM
18.9
Turn RIGHT (East) onto E 6th St
153 yds

9:19 AM
19.0
Arrive Juneau




SUMMARY
Driving distance: 19.0 miles
Trip duration: 2 days, 19 minutes
Driving time: 27 minutes
Cost: $2.74



Obviously, this does not accomodate sailing times so the timeline (ands the Costs calculations) is a bit suspect, but otherwise, S&T seems to do what you want it to with respect to Bellingham-Juneau. For the rest of your itinerary, I am afraid I cannot understand the point you are trying to make.
rgs360
Hello,

Thanks for the tip, but actually there are NO roads to Juneau from ANYWHERE, which is why it is so weird that Streets & Trips just makes it up. I did try to to adjust the individual route options for preferred road types and that doesn't seem to fix the problem. I really think that the problem is in the underlying data and to your point, Navteq never looked at this route. However RV'rs everywhere might be interested in this route. I have tried to figure out how to point this out to Microsoft, but gave up after about half an hour.

Thanks,

James
SpadesFlush
James, as my earlier posting indicates, the last part of the route is via the AMH rather than just across land.

Again, which version are you using?
rgs360
Hello,

Could you please e-mail your map that you made: jseefried@gmail.com. I still show that the ferry route tries to make you "drive".

The other point is that the cross-gulf sailing which connects from Juneau to Whittier actually "jumps" for some reason from Whittier to Homer at the other end of the Peninsula, which actually has never been a sailing and isn't a direct route.

Thanks,

James
rgs360
Hello,

I'm using Streets & Trips 2010.

Thanks,

James
SpadesFlush
Have you tried dragging and dropping route points as I did? This is what you get.
Attached Images
07-17-10.jpg  
SpadesFlush
See Alaska Marine Highway routing in attached Streets & Trips file.

This is better than e-mailing.
Attached Files
File Type: est Bellingham to Juneau.est (16.0 KB)
rgs360
Hello,

Yes I was able to get that, but now try to add your starting point and make a round trip and it goes haywire. I am starting from Grapevine (Dallas) Texas for instance and we are making a loop from here to Anchorage and then on to Fairbanks and down the Dalton Highway through Yellowstone back to Grapevine. That's where it seems to "jump" the lines for the route back to a driving path and leaves the ferry out each time you add another campground.

Very frustrating. And I'm not sure how to fix it.

Thanks,

James
rgs360
Hello,

Thanks for the map.

James
SpadesFlush
OK, Bellingham, WA, to Whittier, AK attached.
Attached Files
File Type: est Bellingham to Whittier, AK.est (16.0 KB)
SpadesFlush
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs360
Hello,

Yes I was able to get that, but now try to add you starting point and make a round trip and it goes haywire. I am starting from Grapevine (Dallas) Texas for instance and we are making a loop from here to Anchorage and then on to Fairbanks and down the Dalton Highway through Yellowstone back to Grapevine. That's where it seems to "jump" the lines for the route back to a driving path and leaves the ferry out each time you add another campground.

Very frustrating. And I'm not sure how to fix it.

Thanks,

James
With a long, complicated route like that, you must manually intervene to cause S&T to do what you want. There are several ways of doing that. If you are focusing on campgrounds, add pushpins to the map for the ones you want. Or click on a place (a road, a point of interest, or a town) and add that to your route.

The joy of Streets & Trips is that you can do very detailed route-planning in advance if you use all the built-in tools.

If you want to post a route you are thinking about, I am sure that Forum members will chip in with ideas and suggestions of what to do and what not to do. Just create a route (an *.EST file) and click on "Manage Attachments" in the "Additional Options" section and follow the prompts.
rgs360
Hello,

OK, thanks so much. I'll re-work this and then post it this next week. I'd love to hear from anyone on their experiences on driving this route anyway. We are doing immense planning as there are about 6 motorhomes in a caravan going so that's why we are using Microsoft Streets and Trips as a common file to get everyone the same page.

Thanks,

James
SpadesFlush
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs360
... We are doing immense planning as there are about 6 motorhomes in a caravan going so that's why we are using Microsoft Streets and Trips as a common file to get everyone the same page.

Thanks,

James
That sounds like an excellent use of Streets & Trips and I am sure that you can get some useful help from Forum members. Actually, I would like to see more of this sort of thing done here on the Forum.
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