At what point is your laptop replaced by a palm sized device?
My Point...Exactly
At what point is your laptop replaced by a palm sized device?

The Dell Streak may not be it - but we're getting close!

I imagine a day when I run my laptop GPS software on a palm sized device.

I do all my analysis and create my trip in the office where my device is docked, and I use a full size keyboard and screen. Then, when I'm ready to hit the road - I undock the device - stick it to my windshield, and navigate on down the road with all the power I expect and require from a laptop GPS software solution.

Anybody else?
Yes, me.

I use a Viliv S5 (about 15 months now) and I love it.

Comparing it to the Dell unit you reference, the screen is about the same physical size but it is 1056x720 versus Dell's lower resolution. The S5 runs Windows O/S, not Android. Therefore, I can use Streets & Trips / AutoRoute on it. Dell's is cheaper, however.
My Point...Exactly
Yes Spades - I remember reading the posts on the Viliv. So do you dock it in the office?

15 months - that's a lot of experience! Tell me - do you use a windshield mount when using with S&T on the road?
Yes, I use a windshield mount and, if the trip is long enough, a cigar-lighter socket power adapter. Otherwise, just battery which lasts reasonably long.

I mostly 'compose' my routes on 24"-monitored full-sized PC and download the files wirelessly to the S5. Viliv now offers full cell-phone connectivity (they didn't when I bought) at a slight premium so that really expands the possibilities.

For instance, I could see in a sales or routing environment that the in-car units would never have to get near Home Base. Routes could be created centrally and simply sent out to the remote devices over G3. All the driver has to do is open the file and navigate.

One comment about screen size. Initially, former laptop users might think the S5's screen is 'small.' However, if you can mount it on the windshield so that it is just past your knuckles on the steering wheel, it is a hell of a lot easier to see than a conventional laptop's screen sitting somewhere in the passenger compartment.
When I can:
1) Get full surround sound, without sacrifice, none. This is my biggest reason. I would settle if I could find drivers for some of my electronic guitar equipment (stereo output only) for it but that leads me to. . .
2) When I can have an android device that works flawlessly in usb host mode, with drivers for my toys, or new toys built for the purpose (with drivers)
3) When I can also extend the video output (I would even settle for a display-link type of device to do this, but see #2)
4) When the device becomes expandable, eg ssds, additional flash sticks, etc- again #2 is the culprit for most part

When these happen I wont need a computer or laptop as we know it. . .at all.
Ken in Regina
So, really, you just want a real computer only smaller. Yes?

lol! but really, 2-3 years tops and Ill have it I bet. My money is still with Intel to lead that, but I am losing faith quick... they need something in the market NOW or the fight will be over before it started. I guess that kinda goes for 'Merica in genral <sic>... Just as long as rock n roll still remains largely in English, guess I'll be ok though. Hehe!!

The point really is its more a matter of software dev than hardware. If I had studied CS or EE instead of chemE (and then becoming a wannabe musician) I'd be ALL OVER android dev. Its time to stop the insanity with the microshaft/intel/itunes/current state of tech development monopoly. I am just worried that isnt going to happen in our borders. We are too concerned wth suing each other.

All your base are belong to us.
I can plug my EVO into my HDTV at home and have a 42" screen. That big enough? I can also put a 32gig microSD chip in it (if they can be found). I have a 16gig chip in it now. I can also wirelessly access the 320 gig drive in my laptop or the 320gig external drive hooked to the laptop.
What about the Toshiba Libretto W100. 2 7" 1024x600 screens, Win 7 32 and a 62G SSD. A little pricey, I must admin though.

Ken in Regina

Android is in as much of a box as MS and the fruity ones. Arguably it's worse. Google has allowed the telcos to take control. At least with MS and Apple there is some commonality.

MS owns the operating system but publishes all the APIs and sells lots of tools and anyone can write for it who wants to. Because Microsoft completely controls the operating system there is no fragmentation in the operating system and, therefore, a huge developer community and a gigantic pool of software to choose form.

With MS, the operating system is proprietary; programming for it is wide open to all comers. And when updates come out everyone is eligible.

Apple controls the OS even tighter so even less chance of fragmentation. Big developer community, lots of tools and loads of software. Not as much as for Windows but still huge.

With Apple, the operating system has become Unix base so although it's still totally proprietary to Apple it's nearly as wide open to developers as Windows. Same deal with new operating system up dates here as with Windows: when they are released, everyone can get them immediately.

Linux is totally open so the development community controls the operating system, sort of. Some fragmentation but since it's in developers' interests to have their software run on as many Linux boxes as possible, they tend to make sure they keep the kernel pretty pure.

As with MS and the fruit, whenever a new release of your chosen distro is available, it's available to all.

Android, which is mostly just Linux with a kernel better designed for portable devices, is a whole different kettle of fish. Because it began life mostly as a mobile smartphone OS Google has given control of it to the cell phone companies in order to get them to sell devices with Android on them. Makes Google look good if sales of 'Droid toys skyrockets. Yes?

However, by giving the cell companies control, they have guaranteed total fragmentation of the operating system. Each of the cell companies have now, indirectly, created their own proprietary versions. The devices are loaded with crapware, much of it proprietary to the cell co, when they come out of the box. Basic features that are in the device from the factory are disabled until/unless you pay the cell co their tithe. The controls for turning the features on and off are proprietary to the cell cos. And when Google releases an Android update the Cell cos get to decide when, or even if, their customers' devices will get them. If there's a chance the update will break a cell co's proprietary apps that they are charging their customers for, the update isn't going to happen.

Please understand that this is not a knock on 'Droid. It's a great big fat black eye for Google. They screwed up big time. This is one time they should have done the same thing Apple and Microsoft have always done and retained complete control of the operating system. Allowing the cellular companies to control it will be its downfall in the long run because it's going to ultimately limit what the app developers can write. E.g. they will all have to write to the lowest common denominator if they want widespread sales.

Me...? I'm waiting to see what HP does with WebOS.

Dont hold your breath for HP. It is largely a services based big company nowadays, I know, I worked at HP Labs till 2009. Hp isnt what it used to be. Thank Carly for that one (it still kills me that she has a serious shot in Ca).
I know what u mean about android, but if you get past the telco issue, it is really in its formative stage and the kernels are still open source. I have hope yet bc we are talking about portable devices, somthimg windows or os x was never intended for.

I am typing this on an evo. Jailbroken and Nand unlocked. Just try to hook your evo up to any external display during normal use, other than watching a movie or looking at pictures. G'hed, try it. It wont work because it isnt supported in android, at least by any dev Ive been able to find. Nice idea, but not ready for prime time yet.
Ken in Regina
I'll be watching the Pre3 and the TouchPad when HP releases them this year. It will be the first crack at it that's all been done since the acquisition. It will tell us a lot about how seriously the are taking it. I like some of the possibilities.

One of the things that stops me cold right now is that the app store is only available to American customers. How dumb is that?! If not for that I would have bought an unlocked Pre2 directly from HP when they started making them available.

I know that Windows and OS X are not mobile operating systems. I just used them to illustrate how MS and Apple are handling Windows Phone 7 and iOS. They are keeping complete control of the OS in their hands and making sure that when a new release is ready everyone gets it.

So Ken, If you were to buy a new smartphone what would you buy. I am looking at buying my first one and they all look about the same. A tech at Verizon told me that the I-phone 4 is not worth the money. I mainly want one just for the use of Copilot. I know that they all have google but I am a Copilot geek. What can I say.
I know I'm REALLY happy with my EVO. It does everything I want it to. The only downside to it is that it has a horrible battery life. Just browsing the internet kills the battery completely in 2-3hrs. Unplugged and doing nothing other than the WiFi hotspot kills it in 3-4hrs.
Ken in Regina
Originally Posted by OneRVer
So Ken, If you were to buy a new smartphone what would you buy.
I'm the absolute wrong person to ask that particular question. I have some very specific requirements. Based on the products that are currently available, I don't think my requirements are very common. That is, none of the current products come even close to what I want. So I am still holding off.

When I said I was waiting on HP to see what they will be doing with the Palm Pre3 I was serious. It's the only device that comes close to what I want.

Based on what Malaki says about the battery life on his EVO, it's not something I would consider. I think the iPhone4 battery life is similar to my wife's iTouch4 and it's a lot more along the lines that I would be looking for. The real issues for me with the iPhone are the fact the batteries are not user-replacable and cost a ridiculous amount to get replaced by Apple. And I don't like the way Apple controls their application environment. An example of something Apple-ish that just makes me crazy is their iTunes environment. iTunes is an application that you have to run on your computer to get stuff on and off the iPod/iPhone/iTouch/iPad. It's not as easy to figure out as Apple would like you to believe but it's far from the worst program I've ever used. My real gripe with it is that once you "register" your Apple device to iTunes on one computer you can't use it on another computer.

So, if you want to be able to put tunes and pictures and things onto you iPhone from either your PC at home or your laptop on the road, you're screwed. It's one or the other. It's not that it's impossible to do. It's just that the requirement to have it "registered" with only one computer at a time makes it a horrific mess to switch between two computers. You have to unregister it from one, which dumps all your backups and loses everything about the device as if it never existed. Then you need to register it with the other one, which wants to do things as if you have a brand new device. If you don't know what to watch out for, this will wipe out everything you've already added to the device, including any apps you paid for and downloaded and any music and pictures you've loaded onto it. iTunes is quite useful if you only ever use it on one computer but if you need to use it on two it's just awful.

But if you want something that's really simple to use in pretty much every respect, don't have a need for some specific app that Apple is never likely to sell and can get a version of CoPilot for it, you could do a whole lot worse.

Regarding what the Verizon person said about the iPhone4, you could say that about the entire smartphone market: none of these toys are worth the price unless you are using them for business and can write them off.

I have no experience with Blackberry except to know from my business friends and a few tradespeople I know who use them they are pretty much bulletproof. I don't know if CoPilot is availble for them.

I wouldn't look at anything with Windows Phone7 at this time. I would let them mature for awhile. There are a few really basic things missing, like you can't even cut/paste with it yet!

Malaki is your guy when it comes to Android features. He seems really happy. If you could find something with the features of the EVO but better battery life you might be in business. It looks like the real battery drain is using it with wifi so if you don't need to do that a lot you should be able to turn the wifi radio off and that might give you more than satisfactory battery life. Malaki could give you feedback on that.

I have a good friend with an iPhone4. He uses it for everything ... even making phone calls. My daughter and I bought an iTouch for my wife for xmas. It's basically an iPhone without the phone part. My wife is a total Luddite .. complete technophobe. Has never had the slightest interest in electronic gizmos. Can't program the VCR and won't learn. Uses only the most basic features of her cell phone. She is having a blast with her iTouch. She has little difficulty learning how to use the pieces she wants and she likes pretty much everything about it. Based on these experiences I would say if the iPhone is kind of what you had in mind and you can get CoPilot for it you would likely be very happy with it.

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