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Can I use US TrailMaps, Whitewater, with Garmin Mobile PC?
flightcancled
So I have decided on turning my old laptop into a carputer and run the Garmin Mobile PC 20x on it for an extended whitewater kayaking trip lasting ~8 months. While cruising Garmin's site, I came across the whitewater US Trail-Map and now must have it! To say it would make my life easier would be a major understatement!

Am I wrong in thinking that I could upload this through MapSource as if it was a topo? Isn't it just a topo with added content- ie waypoints and info?

Info- https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=255&pID=62137


Next-

I am assuming that people aren't just cruising around with their laptops propped up on the passenger seat- certainly that is not what I will be doing. How does Mobile PC work with a touch-screen? Is it functional when using a front end system like Centrafuse, or a total nightmare? I would imagine since it operates a lot like a Nuvi that it would be pretty much designed for touch-screen operation, but I want to be sure.

Thanks!
tcassidy
The maps don't list Mobile PC as compatible but I can't see why they wouldn't be.

Mobile PC is very touch friendly. I have not used a front end but have had it on several touch screen devices.

Terry
Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
The maps don't list Mobile PC as compatible but I can't see why they wouldn't be.
The product description says it's the download version only. You can only load it to the GPS unit you buy it for. I don't know if the download products work with the Mobile PC hardware versions or not.

The download products do not work with Mapsource. They are actually the same sort of file that you use Mapsource to create and transfer to a Garmin GPS device.

To do the download, you have to have the unit connected. That means getting Garmin Communicator involved in the process.

If Garmin Communicator won't work with Mobile PC for downloading locations from a Google Maps search, what are the odds it will work with Mobile PC for something like this???

...ken...
tcassidy
Good points Ken, I saw the download information but thought it would be a transfer via MapSource. You are probably right and Mobile PC would be a no go.

Terry
flightcancled
Wow, that is incredibly short sighted and stupid of Garmin.
tcassidy
I guess they didn't expect people would want to use a laptop in a canoe. I am sure there are not a lot of requests for this type of operation. Most would prefer something smaller and maybe even waterproof.

Terry
flightcancled
...The put-ins and takeouts are all on the side of roads. For boaters this is a perfect package to have in the vehicle since its a topo map with all the POIs we actually need, not the around town stuff.
Ken in Regina
There's a simple, and free, solution if you have a Garmin handheld device. You can purchase the maps for that unit and download them to the unit. Then download Basecamp from Garmin's web site. It's a free download. Connect the unit to your PC. When Basecamp runs, it will see the unit connected, find the maps and you can use the maps in Basecamp on the PC. This gives you the best of both worlds.

Basecamp has much better displays than Mapsource for this sort of thing anyway.

...ken...
tcassidy
The product is very inexpensive but it does not include topo maps, it just works with them.

The problem with BaseCamp besides its glacial speed is it does not do GPS. Fine if just you want a picture or want to set up a route but you need something else for guidance.

Terry
Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
The product is very inexpensive but it does not include topo maps, it just works with them.
I just went back and looked very closely at everything I could find about them, including some screenshots. It sure looks like they include topographic info. Obviously it includes the hydrology (water stuff) but the screenshots also show contour lines for elevation and colours for vegetation, etc.

In Garmin's own words, "...all the detail you need for your next whitewater voyage." It says nothing about having to add other maps to get some of the detail.

Quote:
The problem with BaseCamp ... is it does not do GPS. Fine if just you want a picture or want to set up a route but you need something else for guidance.
Yeah, but you need a handheld unit for the maps anyway. So you have a handheld for navigation and Basecamp for the planning.

I didn't say it was the best solution. The maps appear to be perfect for what flightcancled wants to do so I've suggested a solution that will work with those maps.

Another option -- an iffy one -- would be to reverse convert the .IMG file from the unit to something that will work in Mapsource using cGPSmapper and gmaptool. That will usually get something that will work in Mapsource and might work in nRoute. Maybe.

...ken...
tcassidy
The product cost US$10 and is a 60 Meg download. They would really have problems including Topo in that. I did read that it works with Topo. I'll have to find the reference. By the way, it is locked to the device.

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2009/08/great-news-for-everyone-who-loves-the-great-outd...uns-available-f.html

Use the featured trail data in conjunction with Garmin topo map offerings such as TOPO 100K or TOPO U.S. 24K for a complete adventure.

Terry
tcassidy
I realized I had been using BaseCamp on an XP computer that is getting slow loading anything. I installed it on a Win 7 computer and the speed is not too shabby, probably a little faster than MapSource on redraws using similar maps!

Terry
Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassidy
Downloadable US TrailMaps enhance equestrian and whitewater adventures

Use the featured trail data in conjunction with Garmin topo map offerings such as TOPO 100K or TOPO U.S. 24K for a complete adventure.
[Actually, they're US$24.99 and require only 6.5MB.]

Okay. I only looked at the product pages and I could find no reference to needing other maps. So it looks like it will have to be a transparent overlay. The product specs don't say that either.

If it's a transparent overlay, I don't think Basecamp handles that any better than Mapsource does .. e.g. not at all. And that leaves out nRoute as a potential for using the overlay for realtime navigation on a laptop because it also doesn't display more than one map at a time (e.g. it "sees" what Mapsource "sees" .. one map at a time. Period.)

...ken...
Ken in Regina
I really have to get my brain in gear. I don't see how it can be a transparent overlay.

Point: You can't use it on the PC in Mapsource so you can't create a mapset with the Topo and Trailmap integrated. You have to be able to do that so they're in a single mapset in order for the overlay to display over the "background" road or topo map.

Point: all the images I've been able to track down, on Garmin's site and on US Trailmaps site show the information with topo information.

Point: A Garmin FAQ entry contains the following:

Quote:
There are certain elements of these mapping products that were designed for use on dedicated Outdoor and Marine GPS products that will not be displayed on a nuvi, zumo or StreetPilot device. If you would like to use these mapping products and experience the highest level of detail and functionality, it is recommended that they be used on a dedicated Outdoor or Marine GPS product.
Point: Another quote from the same FAQ (for those who don't know, if you have multiple mapsets installed, City Navigator will always take precedence and display right over top of (e.g. effectively hide) any other map product unless that other map is a transparent overlay):

Quote:
In addition, when viewing this mapping on your device, please ensure that you have disabled your City Navigator mapping ... {and 3D display mode}
All of the above points lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the trailmaps must include within the maps all of the necessary basic data for you to be able to orient yourself with things like roads and highways and other terrain elements.

Another conclusion/speculation would be that the reference to enhancing your experience by using them with one of Garmin's Topo products is equal parts an acknowledgement that the trailmaps do not include all of the topo information that might be useful to your experience so you will probably need to be able to switch to the Topo product for additional detail and/or POI info, as well as a blatant marketing effort to sell you another Garmin map product.

It sounds like anyone interested in it should email either Garmin or US TrailMaps (probably get better answers there) and ask exactly what data they contain. I can't see them being useful if all they have is the over-the-water routes with the put-ins/take-outs. How would they be useful for orienting yourself with land features like highways and roads, etc.?

I would email US TrailMaps and ask what data layers (roads, hydrology, terrain contours, etc.) are included in the Whitewater product they supply to Garmin. Don't waste time checking the Whitewater FAQ on their web site because it just dumps you to Garmin's blank Knowledge Base form. If you have not spent a large amount of time learning how to navigate their knowledge base with it you will just end up

...ken...
tcassidy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken in Regina
[Actually, they're US$24.99 and require only 6.5MB.]

...ken...

I can't remember the download size but add it to your cart and they are under $10, regardless what the blurb says. Unless us Canadians that can't use them anyways get a better deal!

Terry
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