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CoPilot update service
slkeranen
Has anyone been able to connect thru to download any map maintenance updates? Also I have noticed that there are Q1 2012 map updates available but when I download I still get the 2011 maps? Any insight?
DieselBoss
The "Map Maintenance Updates" button inside of CoPilot Laptop has been returning a connection error for some time now. ALK has replied to me that they are aware and are working on an issue with the server.

The last map update that they released is the Q1 (Jan 30 date) and it will show up as "2011.04" in their numbering scheme in the "About CoPilot" screen.
OneRVer
Nope, I haven't. I have wrote several times but not getting any replies accept what DieselBoss has stated. I am for one very disappointed in ALK. I ask them if they are still supporting Laptop version 8 but no reply.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRVer
Nope, I haven't. I have wrote several times but not getting any replies accept what DieselBoss has stated. I am for one very disappointed in ALK. I ask them if they are still supporting Laptop version 8 but no reply.
I agree wholeheartedly. They send lots of very wordy automated replies, but getting any problems resolved is not very easy.
And who came up with the frickin' requirement to put your reply to their email ONLY where this says?
[===> Please enter your reply below this line <===]
[===> Please enter your reply above this line <===]

The fact that ALK has time & resources to develop pointless fluff like "skins"
(http://blog.copilotlive.com/na/2012/08/20/new-skins-for-copilot-which-one-is-your-favorite/)
but has not updated the laptop version in so long is a warning sign, especially when considered in the context of so many other Windows Nav programs no longer being developed.


I'm just glad I was able to "demo" their software (since they foolishly have no demo or trial version available) for only the $10 "special" price of the Android version. At this price point though, it might be worth it for what it does do well: provide excellent quality navigation-mode functionality for trips on interstate highways. But most of the time, you don't need ANY Nav unit for that. CoPilot is most useful when the Lane Assist or Clear Turn are providing guidance.

From what I've determined, the $100 pricetag of the laptop version is definitely not worth it, at least not for me, just from the standpoint of poor POI search/display capability and more importantly because this Windows version has NOT been optimized for use on a normal PC; instead it is mainly a port of a program intended for use on the relatively tiny screen os a smartphone. For example, what other Windows program requires paging through three different screens to enter a new address? That's how most standalone GPS nav units work, but it's a foolish approach on a PC. And the laptop version is (apparently) chock full of interface compromises like this. I say apparently because they have no demo or trial version, so I've had to ask about this from those who already have the laptop version... as in, psssst, hey meester, does CoPilot work like this? ...does CoPilot work like that? That's NUTS!
DieselBoss
There is no demo version of the laptop 8.

I think that what you are using is the Android version right? And that one is not a port - it IS the ground-up version for smartphones. And it is quite different in interface, but similar in functions.

The laptop version does not fit well on a phone device (including their own 4" device) because it has many menu-driven screens and the buttons aren't big and fat like phone apps are made. It is "ok" on a 5" device and fits well on 7" and bigger.

I deal with the truck-specific LAPTOP version and the Windows mobile version on the navigators. Although they are certainly not perfect, they are very popular in this industry and the vast majority of commercial users are happy with version 8 Laptop (especially those who had the previous laptop version for truck.)

It will be interesting though to see what version 9 LAPTOP looks like. Will it be an Android port or will it be ground-up for Windows...
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoss

I think that what you are using is the Android version right?*
And that one is not a port - it IS the ground-up version for smartphones. And it is quite different in interface, but similar in functions.
*Yes, and since there is no demo of any version of CoPilot, I having to make guesses and assumptions about the Windows version based on screen captures and videos that have, thankfully, been posted by people like you who have it.

I read somewhere else that ALK created the Android version to start with, so I assumed it was from the ground-up. I agree that a laptop version could not just be scaled down to work on a smartphone (though it pretty much could work on a tablet, though certainly not all tablets are 1280x800 res like my Thrive, which is similar to the res. of a typical laptop). What I am saying is though the Windows version may be somewhat different, it painfully shows its roots as a smartphone app, and (as far as I can tell, considering that they have no demo version), the Windows version of CoPilot has a severely compromised user interface, because it is so similar to the type of interface needed for a smartphone. Trip planning and POI searching need to work more like they do in S&T. The NAV screen in CoPilot is pretty good. The problem is that a lot of everything else is far from it (for a Windows program).
DieselBoss
Again, I have been selling the laptop versions since before smartphones were invented. The first version that could have the possibility of a port from a smartphone origination is the next one which hasn't been released yet.

The version 8 laptop and all previous versions were built for Windows. It is only in the last 24 months that they started to build it for smartphones.

The smallest screen size that I have used the laptop version on effectively with are 1024X700 netbook screens.

The laptop version interface is very similar to Windows in that most functions come out of the "start" menu rather than from "touchable" nav screen U/I buttons. It has over 40 pages buried in those menus which is quite a bit more than the smartphone version.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoss
Again, I have been selling the laptop versions since before smartphones were invented. The first version that could have the possibility of a port from a smartphone origination is the next one which hasn't been released yet.
OK, thanks for clarifying. Somewhere or other I read an interview with an ALK exec. whose comments made me think they had developed CoPilot for Android first, but I guess he meant, before the iOS version, not before ANY version, or maybe he was referring to priority (at the time of the interview) rather than chronology.

Since they created the Windows version before any smartphone version, all I can say is, ALK's idea of a Windows program interface is different than most. Maybe the roots it's really painfully showing is how ALK copied a lot of the way standalone GPS units work. Some time ago, I did manage to find an older version, which I think was Laptop version 10 (the old numbering scheme). Though it was very different than the current Android version, I thought the user interface on that one stank too, and was way too modal and overly simplified or dumbed down compared to something like S&T, or for that matter Street Atlas (which has its own far from optimal interface). ALK needs to pick the best aspects of the interface of S&T or google maps for the next version of CoPilot for Windows. But I doubt they will do anything like that.
OneRVer
GoneNomad, As DieselBoss said the Laptop version has been out there for along time. I started using Copilot in 2001 or 2003 not sure which year. Long before the Smart Phones. As a matter of fact I had less trouble with the early versions then the new ones. I believe in here somewhere you stated that you could not pick a point on the map. I have no idea about the Smart Phones but on the Laptop the "Pick on Map" feature is available and works well. The only problems that I have is in the Truck Mode. The Truck Mode wants to take me on logging roads instead the highway. I have sent maps with the routing through the logging roads to ALK two years ago and they still have not cleared it up. They do have their faults but I still like the Copilot but I think they are getting in this APPS stuff way to fast.
GoneNomad
I posted here: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/4915-can-copilot-v8-laptop-alter-routes-picking-spot-waypoint#post43963 that the newest Android version could pick a spot on a map, and I asked if v8 laptop could do that as well: "Surely the v8 laptop version does have that capability too, right?" since it does not have the 'drag route' feature. The way 'drag route' works in v9, is no great loss IMO. It's easier to just pick a spot than to drag the route, and all dragging actually does anyway is put a waypoint on the map, just like pointing to a spot.

As for routing, I's already found plenty of flaws with that, e.g.:


ref.: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/323-review-alk-copilot-p6#post43989
DieselBoss
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
OK, thanks for clarifying. Somewhere or other I read an interview with an ALK exec. whose comments made me think they had developed CoPilot for Android first, but I guess he meant, before the iOS version, not before ANY version, or maybe he was referring to priority (at the time of the interview) rather than chronology.

Since they created the Windows version before any smartphone version, all I can say is, ALK's idea of a Windows program interface is different than most. Maybe the roots it's really painfully showing is how ALK copied a lot of the way standalone GPS units work. Some time ago, I did manage to find an older version, which I think was Laptop version 10 (the old numbering scheme). Though it was very different than the current Android version, I thought the user interface on that one stank too, and was way too modal and overly simplified or dumbed down compared to something like S&T, or for that matter Street Atlas (which has its own far from optimal interface). ALK needs to pick the best aspects of the interface of S&T or google maps for the next version of CoPilot for Windows. But I doubt they will do anything like that.
Many users agree with you that went they went to Version 10 (Car and RV laptop version) and Version 11 (equivalent to version 10, but for trucks) that they like the previous "S&T" style of interface better.

They went to that interface because it could port easier over to Windows CE for windshield mounted GPS (4", 5", and 7" models) without having to write 2 entirely different interfaces. It remains a controversial decision to this day indeed.

It doesn't help either that they jumped all over with the numbering scheme.

Here is how it went:
1. TravRoute Door-to-Door
2. CoPilot laptop 3
3. CoPilot laptop 4
4. CoPilot laptop 9
5. CoPilot 10 and 11 simulataniously
6. CoPilot 9 for Android
7. CoPilot 9 for iOS
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoss
They went to that interface s that it could port easier over to Windows CE for windshield mounted GPS (4", 5", and 7" models) without having to write 2 entirely different interfaces.* It remains a controversial decision to this day indeed.

It doesn't help either that they jumped all over with the numbering scheme.

Here is how it went:
1. TravRoute Door-to-Door
2. CoPilot laptop 3
3. CoPilot laptop 4
4. CoPilot laptop 9
5. CoPilot 10 and 11 simulataniously
6. CoPilot 9 for Android
7. CoPilot 9 for iOS
* Well, that explains why the current "laptop" version has the interface it does. It's not that CoPilot laptop has a "smartphone ancestry" but essentially the same compromise due to compatibility with similarly small Windows CE devices.

I think there was an even older version than I already tried that (I guess) would run in demo mode. Maybe I'll find it and try it just for the heck of it.

Somewhere in the numbering scheme above should be v8 laptop (the current version) and v8 iOS/Android (one version back from the current one).
malaki86
I asked ALK on Facebook when an update would be released for the laptop and they replied that it would be coming out 'next month'. So, we'll see.

As for the screen size, I use a 7" touch screen. The laptop runs a front-end software that I use to control everything while I'm driving. It creates a 'window' that external programs run in, including CoPilot v8. When I'm in my 'driving' mode, my screen resolution is 800x600, with the 'window' for CoPilot being 800x480. Even at that resolution, it scales perfectly.

CoPilot v9 was a different story completely - that POS wouldn't run in any resolution that was native to a wide-screen display, such as 1024x768 (normal), but instantly crashed at my laptop's native 1440x900.
malaki86
OneRVer, I think I may have some info on the 'logging road' routing, since I used to have that problem with CoPilot v8:

When I started getting those routing mistakes, I contacted ALK. They said the data they received from the state of WV included information that ALL non-4 lane roads in the state have a max weight limit of 64,000lbs. Well, with the program set for an 80,000lb truck, it drove it absolutely nuts trying to route me down a US highway in WV.

Since then, though, the data has been corrected. The 'new' CoPilot v8 now routes me correctly and I've only ran into that issue one or two times, and that's been REALLY back roads.
DieselBoss
One RVer. Do you have CPT8 Laptop Truck? If so, go to Menu/Settings/About CoPilot and tell me the version number at the top. They updated it several months ago and I can help you out if it's the truck version that you have.
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