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CoPilot features Q&A
DieselBoss
By the way, that was a great program. (9&10) but the maps are from 2006 and the graphics are blocky by modern comparison. Still, I loved that version for it's features and customization for sure.

It was also the last one that allowed "right-clicking" and "box-zoom"
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoss
There is a planning screen, but not a planning mode with all of those intricate drop down features any more.

And I revised the version thread because now that I see your screenshot. That is the same as the truck version "9" and not the newer U/I that came in on version 11. So it was 9 and 10 that were twin released (one truck and one non-truck)
That's a shame. The CoPilot 10 planning mode is like a "normal" Windows program (or Mac, for that matter, in other words, it has the type of interface you'd expect for a so-called "desktop" program), and they also provided the option to make the button bigger. In comparison, CoPilot 10 Navigation interface (and evidently the entire interface of the newer version too) is like a front end for an ATM or a standalone Nav unit, unable to take advantage of all the capabilities of a desktop or laptop computer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoss
By the way, that was a great program. (9&10) but the maps are from 2006 and the graphics are blocky by modern comparison. Still, I loved that version for it's features and customization for sure.
What about ALK's lifetime map update policy? Did that not start until the newer versions?

Yes, I agree, very much so. You get this "3D View" in the Nav mode when you hit the "Go" button:


Here's a (slightly squished) screen capture of the controls in CoPilot 10 laptop nav mode:



I see blocky graphics aren't the only thing; it has it's share of coding problems too, like in this case not letting you out of the "Destination" pane/window (or whatever) without hitting the "GO" button even when there is no destination:


First time I've ever seen any POI system make you chose "Dining" then "Restaurants" in order to get to "Restaurants"

...and even if I tell it specifically WHICH restaurant I want, I still have no idea which one is which, where they are, or even what direction any of them are (because I probably don't want the closest one, but the next one in the direction I am heading), without choose ONE of them first:


..
Also, the voice annunciations in CoPilot 10 Nav mode are barely intelligible. And I DO mean barely.
This is on the same computer that S&T sounds as good as it does on any other computer.
Attached Images
copilot-10-laptop-nav-mode-1.jpg   copilot-10-laptop-nav-mode-2.jpg   copilot-10-laptop-nav-mode-3.jpg   copilot-10-laptop-nav-mode-4.jpg   copilot-10-laptop-nav-mode-5.jpg  

DieselBoss
There have been moments and versions over the years that have made various map statements but I don't recall any that said "free lifetime maps." The longest running continuous free map updates from one of their products has been the PC Miler Navigator series.
GoneNomad
Maybe Android and iOS only?

FREE Quarterly Map Update for All CoPilot Live Premium Android and iOS Customers
http://blog.copilotlive.com/na/2012/06/22/free-quarterly-map-update-for-all-copilot-live-p...d-and-ios-customers/

...or maybe even on Android and iOS, FREE Quarterly Map Updates are only until the next version of CoPilot is released?
DieselBoss
Correct. They do not use the word "lifetime" and that goes for specific versions. It has been that way on the navigators for over two years for instance. But on the laptop version there has been only one (which brought it up to the Q1 2012) and caught it up to the navigators and phones.
GoneNomad
My mistake for assuming "FREE Quarterly Map Update" when it actually stops for the version you have when a newer version is released.

To me this makes the $100 laptop version an even worse deal. In fact it's a deal-breaker, and I guess I would have saved a lot of time if I had not jumped to the (false) conclusion about "lifetime."

So I guess from what you said about the older version that still had a much more useful planning interface (which we now know is laptop version 10) not being useful for most of your customers due to the outdated maps, that must mean that owners of older versions cannot buy map updates either.


DieselBoss
Correct. Traditionally when they released a new version, they discontinue map updates on the previous version.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoss
By the way, that was a great program. (9&10) but the maps are from 2006 and the graphics are blocky by modern comparison. Still, I loved that version for it's features and customization for sure.

It was also the last one that allowed "right-clicking" and "box-zoom"
The fact that ALK eliminated those features from the Laptop version is another example of how off-track they are.

Now maybe that's a reason why the v9 laptop version is so delayed - they need extra time to restore some of the Windows-standard-program-style interface and functionality.

But most likely that's wishful thinking on my part.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoss
Oh, ok. That is the importer/exporter wizard from the pre Version 10/11 days. For instance, the last version 9 laptop had that and a whole host of other tools and screens that were gone when they changed the UI to work on Windows Mobile. It was part of what you have been referring to as "like MS Streets" type of programming.
Previously I asked ALK the following:

Summary: Custom Place Import Wizard in v8 laptop?
Problem Description: On page 45 of the CoPilot 10 (laptop) user
guide, it discusses "Importing Custom Places" as follows: "CoPilot
Live’s Custom Place Import Wizard enables you to import addresses from
your Outlook Contacts database, an Excel file, or text file." --- But I
see nothing about this in the online User Guides for the newer v8
laptop. Does CoPilot v8 laptop have the feature described above?

And here's the response I got Via Email from ALK Tech (Jason) - 24/08/2012 10.31 AM

Thank you for contacting CoPilot Technical Support.

Yes, you can import files to v8 as long as they're in csv format.

--------------------------------------------------

Notice that says "import" and (OOPS!) he forgot to mention HOW you have to "import files to v8" (by rooting around for the right folder to put files into) and that the import wizard is gone in v8, along with the interface that allowed easy use of features like that.
DieselBoss
Yes, he omitted the METHOD. But it is documented here and elsewhere fortunately.

But there is no nice importer screen like the one you found in ver 10.
GoneNomad
...which is a huge drawback if trying to use that so-called "import" feature on a frequent basis, for a lot of routinely changing small batches of POIs, rather than a few larger batches that rarely change. This is exacerbated by CoPilot v8's non-standard interface, which prevents the quickest & easiest way text like a few addresses is normally transferred between two programs: by copy & paste.

Jason's statement, though technically true, is not the correct answer to the question I asked. He didn't know that I already knew the correct answer was, NO the "CoPilot Live’s Custom Place Import Wizard" is not there anymore. But if I had not known that, his answer might easily leave me expecting it to still be there, but for .CSV files only.

But that's OK. It's clear to me now that S&T is the way to go, even if it may take five more years to get it to stop saying "YOO-SOUTH" for every U.S. highway
DieselBoss
Agreed.

S&T is a great program at a great price-point.

If you don't drive truck.
malaki86
Once you import a csv/ov2 poi set into CoPilot, it 'remembers' the filename and what poi group it imports to. For example, my 'Customers' file, which I update pretty much on a daily basis, is copied to the copilot directory each time I start CoPilot by means of a simple .bat file. When CoPilot starts, it sees the new file and updates the poi's. It takes maybe 2 seconds for it to do this. The only time I have any interaction with importing poi's now is if I add a completely new file, and that's just so it can ask me what group to put it in.
GoneNomad
Well, true, and I guess it's probably an acceptable workaround for someone who is driving longer routes that are known sooner, (for example, at the beginning of the day).

But let's be realistic about what this is: it is a workaround for a fairly obvious flaw in CoPilot, one that is only there because some people at ALK made very stupid decisions about how CoPilot functions.

So here's a more dynamic situation: Let me make this just a simplified "one new stop" example involving a local delivery courier, but it could easily be more complicated than this, and it could also involve a lot of other situations besides local delivery couriers. A courier's route may need to change on the fly because while he is on his way to one destination, he receives notification via text message that he needs to make a pickup somewhere that is more or less along the way to where he was already headed.

Traditionally this information came verbally over the phone (and often still does). To get that into CoPilot requires manually typing it in, using three different screens. But the courier already has the address text on his computer/PDA/tablet/smartphone (whatever).

True, he could have a special POI file just for "NEW" addresses like this, and save the new address to that file. It would be easier to overwrite it, but that would wipe out any other addresses already in there, so in practice he'll probably have to open the existing file, make the addition, then save it back out. And since CoPilot requires a .CSV file, that file format may be another extra step, depending on what software he receives the address in, though he can probably copy&paste from there into Excel or something else and save as .CSV (and then from there, and from there, and from there, etc., this is toooo many steps) and as long as that works OK, CoPilot will be able to read the new address in that file.

Then he'll have to shut down and restart CoPilot, to make it "see" the new address, during which time his current navigational instructions will also shut down.

Or he could just re-type it, using the cumbersome three screens that ALK provides to do a task that in any other Windows program would be a Copy&Paste that takes about 2 seconds. Having to choose between the workaround described above, or re-typing that new address, is not helpful.

Now, maybe there is another, completely different way in CoPilot to accomplish something like I've described above. Maybe there is what I might call a "sync" capability that can be enabled to automatically capture addresses from some external source, via some online-social-networking, live-searching, cloud-enabled, super-duper kazotchie that's far too sophisticated for my brain to comprehend. By I never saw any mention of that in the relatively sparse CoPilot online "user guide" either, so maybe ALK is keeping that one a secret, just for "special" users who "get it"?

These devices/software are supposed to help, not hinder, tasks like these. Sometimes I think so many developers/users of all this gear loose sight of this fundamental fact somewhere along the way - perhaps the excessive complexity that often goes with this gear sucks many developers of software like this, as well as many users, so deep into the forest that they can no longer see the trees.
malaki86
If his new stop info comes in on his phone via voice or text, his pda or his satellite, then no matter what, the address is going to have to be entered sooner or later into CoPilot, whether it's via a .csv file import or by entering it into the software itself via the address entry.

There are trucking companies out there running specialized versions of CoPilot that was created just for their company. Those are tied in with their satellite system and when a new load comes in, it's automatically put into the trip planner.

Also, don't forget, that CoPilot was designed to be used on touchscreen devices. On a true touchscreen, there is no right-click to access the copy/paste menus. Sure, you can set your touchscreen driver to react to a long-press as a right-click, but I've rarely have had any luck with that.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is - I can type a new address from scratch into CoPilot in under 10 seconds using the keyboard, maybe 20 seconds using the touchscreen.
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