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Who wants to help design an all-new trip planner from the ground up?
SpadesFlush
@GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
...

In this case, I'm trying to emulate part of the functionality of the POI Megafile, so that a traveler in an unfamiliar area can (for example) see where all the parks he might like to visit are relative to his current position, without having to waste a lot of time scrolling around in a highly zoomed-in map, where it's easy to lose track of where you are relative to the overview of the area.

The second screen capture shows that for POIs like this, google's own search does not find them,
even though it has them identified on the map as named places that can be selected to bring bring up the info on that POI.
...
Yeah, but I don't see a way. Streets and Trips did/(does) that quite well. So well, in fact, that I still use it for route planning. At that stage, map obsolescence is not a serious concern. So, one can put together a route based on POIs or specific objectives in S&T/AR, convert the requisite points to Google Contacts, and sequence the stops in Google calendar, etc. Those points could be converted to GPX which can be converted to CSV which in turn can be up-loaded as a group of Google Contacts and become the basis of a Google Maps route.

Long live Streets and Trips!
SpadesFlush
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
...another approach to helping make non-specific local search easier is the dual zoom view I discussed...
Yeah, I can see that for PC route planning. There is no room for it on a phone, however. This may go beyond the vast majority of users' needs, I suspect.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadesFlush
@SpadesFlush... Yeah... Streets and Trips did/(does) that quite well. So well, in fact, that I still use it for route planning. At that stage, map obsolescence is not a serious concern. So, one can put together a route based on POIs or specific objectives in S&T/AR, convert the requisite points to Google Contacts, and sequence the stops in Google calendar, etc.

Long live Streets and Trips!
I'm gradually coming to the same conclusion... especially since, as you say:
"map obsolescence is not a serious concern."
...for many/most of the type of POI I've described; they've been there "forever" and they aren't going anywhere.

Need google's unmatched local search/discovery to FIND/VERIFY some of these places, but then (ironically) the best place to STORE them is still in S&T!

------------------

BTW, I've tried using Google Calendar some more, and it works great... one thing I wish it did, though, is make the default calendar event name to be the place name, if user chooses to not name it. Otherwise they're all named: "(No title)" ...evidently Google's developers didn't think about using calendar to schedule events that actually are just stops on a route rather than actual "events."

And they didn't provide any way (that I can find) to add "calendar events" to a multi-stop route, for anything than the first stop. You can add an item in the "Upcoming" list that shows events entered in the calendar to the route builder as the first stop, but when you then add another stop, you can't get to that "Upcoming" list. You can only chose from among the places in the recent history.
SpadesFlush
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
... one thing I wish it did, though, is make the default calendar event name to be the place name, if user chooses to not name it. Otherwise they're all named: "(No title)" ...evidently Google's developers didn't think about using calendar to schedule events that actually are just stops on a route rather than actual "events."
Not to worry. It is easy to edit Calendar entries after the fact and it probably is a good idea from an on-the-phone perspective to use a snappy compact event name that captures the essence of the stop or POI.
GoneNomad
Naming the calendar event by Copying & Pasting the place name is easy enough on a desktop OS.
Just another step though.
SpadesFlush
I hate steps...
GoneNomad
I don't like extra steps either. And if/when you're forced to do them while traveling, it can get downright dangerous (yeah, i know, nobody EVER does this while driving).

Don't know if you saw this part, which I added to the post above about the same time your were replying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
@GoneNomad...they didn't provide any way (that I can find) to add "calendar events" to a multi-stop route, for anything than the first stop. You can add an item in the "Upcoming" list that shows events entered in the calendar to the route builder as the first stop, but when you then add another stop, you can't get to that "Upcoming" list.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadesFlush
@SpadesFlush... Long live Streets and Trips!
INDEED, that is still true for some things.
I wonder if anyone has gotten S&T running on Win10, and if so, how much trouble is it to get a place or address from S&T into the Win10 "Maps" app that does fairly decent navigation???

Maybe Ken knows???
Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
INDEED, that is still true for some things.
I wonder if anyone has gotten S&T running on Win10, and if so, how much trouble is it to get a place or address from S&T into the Win10 "Maps" app that does fairly decent navigation???

Maybe Ken knows???
See our discussion in the S&T (Microsoft) section. Short answer, Yes.

And for the record, I'm not the least bit tired of these threads on how to effectively use the new tools we have available to try and replace, or even improve upon, the trip planning capabilities of the older stuff.

Also for the record, I'm not a frequent long distance traveler. When I travel, I stick an itinerary in OneNote that contains the dates and hotel info (name, address, phone, confirmation #). I ensure that my standalone nav device can find each of the accommodation locations, and if not, I create a waypoint in the device.

If there are any specific things we want to see/do, I treat them similarly to accommodations - add them to the itinerary along with the relevant info and add a waypoint to the device if it's POI search comes up dry.

If I see attractions or events that might be of interest if we have time to kill or the mood strikes us, I add that info to a separate info page in OneNote that I create for each of the cities/towns we will stop in or pass through. Sometimes it's a cut/paste of text info or copy of an event poster or whatever. Or sometimes it's just a URL to the relevant web page.

Getting waypoints for locations my nav device doesn't know about into the nav device is fairly straightforward. I use Garmin PNDs so I use Garmin's Mapsource PC program to create them and transfer to the nav device. I've never acquired any love for Garmin's newer Basecamp PC program but since Mapsource continues to work I continue to use it (Hurray for another oldy goldy!!).

Sometimes I also put those same waypoints into my Favorites in CoPilot on my Android phone, just in case. I just drop a GPX file, convert it to CSV and let CoPilot digest it.

I do pretty much the same thing, conceptually, as SpadesFlush for navigation. It's all A to B navigation. I locate the next stop using the nav device's search functions and hit GO.

...ken...
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadesFlush
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
@GoneNomad....another approach to helping make non-specific local search easier is the dual zoom view I discussed here.
Turns out somebody has already done something like that at this LINK ...which directs you to this dual-zoom view
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadesFlush
Yeah, I can see that for PC route planning. There is no room for it on a phone, however. This may go beyond the vast majority of users' needs, I suspect.
Not just route planning, but also capturing PPOI (possible points of interest) that elude google's text search (like the examples I gave before). That way they are in a list somewhere if/when the opportunity to go visit one or a few.
That's where S&T's capability to display BIG POI icons is beneficial.

I'm realizing there's a fundamental difference in how I might plan a trip, and apparently how others do it. I might want to have a list of all the POSSIBLE points of interest in an area, and I might not decide which ones I might want to visit until I'm there, in the area. And once I'm in an area like that, it's highly likely that I would not have 4GLTE data, and sometimes finding public Wi-Fi might be inconvenient too. I don't want to have to STOP; I want to just GO there.

So I really want to have all the info I need, self-contained, locally stored, not requiring the internet to hand off an address/location from one software package to another, especially if both apps are running on the SAME computer or mobile device. Sure, I could read the address and re-type it into google maps, but that sure seems really DUMB, and also seems like a side effect of software developers who instinctively can't imagine this scenario... and also because they (meaning google) also WANT OUR DATA ALL THE TIME. So that's another reason why the scheme they devise requires that sending a simple text address or coordinates to a nav device needs their "google play service" to do it.

That's also the theme that runs through the UI of most google products: you find something by starting to type in its name, then google gives you a short list. In comparison, I'm a HUGE bookmarker. That's why I have always preferred Firefox to Chrome even though FireFox isn't as stable. Now I'm trying Vivaldi, though, and it may be the better that either FF or Chrome. Among other features, Vivaldi allow notes to be added to bookmarks. For what I'm doing, that seems like it might be really useful, maybe eliminate the need for a Note-taking app.


I know the "traditional" approach is to download a .gpx file via USB to a PND, but AFAIC, I don't really want to do that either, not when I can have a mobileOS device with a much larger higher-re screen, that will do many OTHER things a PND can't do. For example, when I DO have data, it can show me the road conditions in key areas of my trip, or many other things. Lots of mobileOS apps do stuff like this, and websites too, but PNDs don't.

But I'm glad this discussion has led me to re-consider S&T. I used S&T for many years, especially a decade ago, when cable internet speeds were much lower and google's servers were much slower, and S&T ran circles around googlemaps during that time. So maybe now, in rural areas, looking for obscure POIs that a google text search doesn't find, maybe there's still good reason to build a HFT toolkit built on a Win10 device capable of running S&T. Could still use GoogleMaps for what it (still) does best: short trips (side trips in this case) to mainstream POIs.
SpadesFlush
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
...I might want to have a list of all the POSSIBLE points of interest in an area, and I might not decide which ones I might want to visit until I'm there, in the area.
I cannot see myself bifurcating POIs into really interesting and just plain interesting. A point is either of interest to me or it is not; whether I stop, fly by, or totally ignore can be determined en route. Therefore, I am afraid you lose me on PPOIs. ...
Quote:
But I'm glad this discussion has led me to re-consider S&T. I used S&T for many years, especially a decade ago, when cable internet speeds were much lower and google's servers were much slower, and S&T ran circles around googlemaps during that time. So maybe now, in rural areas, looking for obscure POIs that a google text search doesn't find, maybe there's still good reason to build a HFT toolkit built on a Win10 device capable of running S&T. Could still use GoogleMaps for what it (still) does best: short trips (side trips in this case) to mainstream POIs.
Right.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadesFlush
I cannot see myself bifurcating POIs into really interesting and just plain interesting. A point is either of interest to me or it is not; whether I stop, fly by, or totally ignore can be determined en route. Therefore, I am afraid you lose me on PPOIs. ...Right.
I used the term PPOI euphemistically.

Some places I want to visit, but may not get to. Those are POIs.

Others I might or might not want to visit, depending on the opportunity and the weather and the mood and other factors. This is a much larger group, and too large to reasonably manage in the non-searchable, non-sortable googlemaps 'shortlists' sections.

That's one reason I like the options that S&T provides for managing POIs: adding icons, notes, etc., all of which is stored locally, accessible anytime. Compare this to the google metaphor, which always encourages users to find things by using one or more of google's online search tools.

-------------------

FWIW, I use the term shortlists now because this evaluation has led to the realization that in addition to the list of googlemaps "Saved" places, there are two other similar lists that can be used similarly ("Labeled" and "Upcoming"). As recently as a week ago, I didn't know there was a way to add more places to the "Labeled" section, that has always had Home & Work in it by default. And the "Upcoming" list is a fairly new googlemaps feature linked to googlecalendar entries.

And I was reminded about something I already knew, but had been (sort of) forgotten: the somewhat manageable list of "Saved Places" that shows up under the misleading heading of "Bookmarks"

-------------------

I guess the point is, even if any participant here does not see any usefulness it my way of managing POIs now, doesn't mean that what was learned here won't become useful in the future.
Ken in Regina
Some of you may have noticed this morning that Marvin has repaired the "Originally Posted by:" feature so it works again. Good work!!

...ken...
SpadesFlush
Converting a GPX file to a CSV file and then importing that file into Google Contacts seems to be no trivial thing, definitely not straightforward. Google does not actually tell you how to import CSV files. http://www.wikihow.com/Add-Contacts-to-Gmail-Using-a-CSV-File provides some clues. At the least, the GPX file needs to be modified before it can be saved as a CSV file. I have not figured out just exactly what must be done.

I can see that the top line of the CSV file needs to have column header captions for the data that appear in the respective columns that Google Contacts will recognize. Of course, I do not know what these are.

So, unless someone figures out how to massage a conventional CSV into something that Google Contacts can work with, I am afraid this is a blind alley.
Ken in Regina
Just make a couple of contacts that contain the stuff you will be wanting and export a CSV from it. Seems reasonable to assume it will export the same format it wants to import.

...ken...
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