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I feel technologically illiterate
Boyd
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron4adams
They were pretty sure navigating with the Samsung Galaxy Tab A would require either cellular or internet connection even if the device had a GPS chip. Are they correct?
No, that is not true and unfortunately typical of the bad advice you often get at Best Buy. I like Best Buy and use them frequently... but do your own research elsewhere if you have questions.

My Samsung tablet is wifi only and I was able to download any navigation app I wanted from Google Play. The Best Buy salesperson probably doesn't realize that the best GPS apps store all the map data directly on your tablet. So you can install the app and download the map data in advance with wifi at home. Then it will work anywhere. As I said, you would not be able to access traffic or other special features without a data connection however. And you couldn't use an app like Google because it requires a data connection to function at all.

I think this was all covered in my earlier post(s). But it's up to you to believe whoever you choose.
ron4adams
Your observations are precisely as I had understood from our earlier postings and suggested at Best Buy that their advise was perhaps not accurate (probably not as diplomatically). I think I will take the plunge and purchase the Tab A 7.0 and hope for the best. I will let you know how it works as soon as I load some destinations and take it for a drive.
Boyd
Cool - but just to be clear, as I suggested before, I would still get a cellular capable tablet because it will give you more options. Then don’t buy a data plan, just use it on wifi and see how you like it. You could add a data plan later if you want additional capabilities.

Best Buy is a pretty good option IMO, because they have a good return/exchange policy (in case you decide a tablet isn’t a good choice) and it’s a lot easier to do this at a local store than mail order.
ron4adams
That is the plan, either this afternoon or tomorrow. Thanks for the help.
Boyd
Will be interested to hear how it works out!
GoneNomad
This is a *MUCH* better value than a Galaxy Tab A 7.0:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LG-G-Pad-X-8-0-V520-32GB-Wi-Fi-4G-LTE-Cellular-AT-T-Unlocked-8in-...let-New/172585962668
This is just about the only tablet that has a full-size USB port in addition to a microUSB port.
The LTE connectivity is a bonus (as low as 2GB/3 months/$25 with AT&T) but you don't have to use it.

These have been as low as $119 when on sale.
I have two of them, and from this seller, they are Brand New (sealed).
Boyd
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
The LTE connectivity is a bonus (as low as 2GB/3 months/$25 with AT&T)
As I posted above, this is the plan I have because I wanted to use AT&T. However, T-Mobile had a plan that gave you 5gb for 150 days at $10. This was advertised as a one-time promotional thing, but others report they have been able to renew at that price more than once.

Now this is one of the options that is available for direct purchase on an iPad, so I don't know if you would be able to access it on an Android tablet.
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd
As I posted above, this is the plan I have because I wanted to use AT&T. However, T-Mobile had a plan that gave you 5gb for 150 days at $10. This was advertised as a one-time promotional thing, but others report they have been able to renew at that price more than once.

Now this is one of the options that is available for direct purchase on an iPad, so I don't know if you would be able to access it on an Android tablet.
FWIW, after having more than one AT&T store claim the 2GB/3 months/$25 "plan" does not exist (and having them activate one of the tablets on a $25 per month pre-paid plan), it's important to note that AT&T classifies this not as pre-paid, but as "session based" service, which is available here (as is the $29.99 auto-renew Unlimited MB for 30 days). Prepaid refill cards cannot be used on this service (as I found out the hard way).

My unfortunate experience at an AT&T store started only because I went there to get a SIM card. I showed the guy specifically what I wanted, and he claimed to know about it, then activated the tablet on a $25 per month pre-paid plan anyway.

Boyd, if you have a link to the '5gb for 150 days at $10' T-Mo service, I'd sure like to know more about it, even if it was a one-time promotional deal. When I searched for it, all I found a was a few references in 3rd-party forum posts from a year ago or older. I'd rather have TMo than AT&T (and the GPad V520 can be used with either).

Based on this thread (from 2015) and this post, it looks like that '5gb for 150 days at $10' offer was years ago and may have only been made available to iPad users after they depleted their 200MB/mo free data for life (although once that plan was purchased for an ipad, apparently the SIM with that plan on it would work in other tablets)
...
Boyd
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad;53321[B
it's important to note that AT&T classifies this not as pre-paid, but as "session based" service, which is [/B]available here (as is the $29.99 auto-renew Unlimited MB for 30 days).
Not sure what you mean here. If you go to the link you posted and click on "Tablets and other Mobile Devices" it is listed under Domestic DataConnect Pass Pay as You Go Plans as $25 for 90 days. But on the iPad, when you go into the cellular data preferences you can purchase it there.

That was also the case with the T-Mobile plan. However... once you choose AT&T as your provider on the iPad, your SIM card is permaently converted to an AT&T SIM card, so I can't check it anymore. But as of this past June, Several people on another site said they have purchased the 5gb/150day plan for $10 multiple times after it expired.
GoneNomad
What I mean is exactly what I said:

AT&T classifies the 2GB/3 months/$25 as "session based" service, not prepaid.
It can't be managed using AT&T's prepaid site (nor the post paid site, of course).
And as I already mentioned, normal AT&T prepaid refill cards cannot be used on this service (as I found out the hard way).

If you talk to someone at AT&T who is actually aware of the 2GB/3 months/$25 service (or the $29.99/mo unlimited service), they will tell you it isn't considered to be a pre-paid plan. If that sounds confusing, yeah, it is. The confusion (even by AT&T employees who claimed to know what they were doing) over the difference between "Pre-paid" and "session-based" is how I originally ended up with $25/month pre-paid service.

I pointed this out not to be nit-picky, but to (maybe) prevent someone else from getting snuckered into one of the pre-paid plans. Of course, that depends on someone else ever reading the posts here...
Boyd
Well all I know is... on the iPad you go to "Add a data plan" and you can pick the 2gb/90 day plan along with many others - no need to go to any website. I entered my credit card number and was up and running in a matter of seconds. It worked as expected and I bought another one after the initial 90 days.

What kind of "management" do you need for one of these plans? Never heard of a pre-paid refill card. Why would that be preferable to just purchasing the plan directly with a credit card?

Sorry, I don't know how any of this works on Android, my Samsung tablet is wifi-only. Isn't there some kind of pre-installed app that lets you choose and purchase data plans directly on the tablet?
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd
Well all I know is... on the iPad you go to "Add a data plan" and you can pick the 2gb/90 day plan along with many others - no need to go to any website.
Maybe so... if you already have an activated AT&T SIM installed in it. Maybe the difference is if you already had an account with AT&T voice service? But you can't just put an unactivated SIM in a new tablet and immediately just "Add a data plan" without entering other info. Sounds like in your case, somebody on AT&T's end had already set up the account (including the phone number) for your tablet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd
What kind of "management" do you need for one of these plans?
Initial set up, changes to service such as adding additional data packages, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd
Never heard of a pre-paid refill card. Why would that be preferable to just purchasing the plan directly with a credit card?
Prepaid refill cards can be purchased for a discount from face value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd
Sorry, I don't know how any of this works on Android...
I don't think OS has anything to do with it.

The first four screen caps at this link show the steps (but not my personal info) in signing up for AT&T session-based service using this link. The end result of those four steps is shown in the account info here.

It doesn't matter whether a user is signing up using their tablet, or using a PC, the steps are the same, including entering the device's IMEI & SIM card numbers, along with personal info, and choosing a phone number. If all you had to do was "Add a data plan" then someone else had already done those steps for you.

This image shows the completely different site AT&T provides to manage pre-paid accounts, and it also shows the plans available ($25, $50 or $75 per month); the 2GB/3 months/$25 service is not available to a user whose device is set up with an "AT&T PrePaid" account.

Boyd, I really don't want to expend any more time on this, because it's turning into an argument. I've set up three tablets in the last month with AT&T, and I've also dealt with AT&T employees two different AT&T-owned stores and a couple of AT&T CS reps by phone, none of whom were willing/able to set up a new tablet on the "2GB/3 months/$25 service" and they also initially wouldn't just hand over a SIM card either to let me do it myself. So, for tablet #1, I ended up leaving the AT&T store with an activated SIM card but the wrong type of service, and later, after I made them aware of the mistake, they weren't willing/able to change it. I did eventually get AT&T to fix the problem, but only by starting over with a new, unactivated AT&T SIM, and going up the chain until I found a higher-level AT&T CS rep who actually knew what they were doing.

The online sign-up process would be the same for anyone starting with a new tablet and a new unactivated SIM card, (or a SIM card activated by an AT&T store, which is what I had on the first tablet that they put on a pre-paid plan).

And this is the last I'm going to comment about this, because it's already way too many words that nobody else is likely to read, much less benefit from. You don't have to believe what I've said here if you don't want to.

...
Ken in Regina
Hi Ron, welcome back.

First, the Best Buy folks are dead wrong. I have multiple Android devices.

1. Google Maps allows you to download selected map areas for those times when you are out of any service area. It's a bit of an annoyance how they do it and they "expire" on you if you're not paying attention. But it's quite possible.

2. Here WeGo (from Bing/Microsoft) has the same feature but it's much more usable. You can simply select things like individual states or provinces, or an entire country rather than having to lasso some arbitrary area and hope you've grabbed enough. They don't expire and you can periodically tell Here to update any that you've downloaded. Much more useful.

3. Standalone navigation apps like ALK CoPilot often come with dedicated offline maps and work with them by default, even when you're connected, thus eliminating any need for data use for navigation. Their map databases are just like the ones you use for dedicated devices like Garmin's or TomTom's. CoPilot users get free lifetime map updates. Updates are available every quarter, just like Garmin's.

@GoneNomad and I are having an offline discussion about exactly this stuff right now. It might be beneficial to bring relevant parts of it here.

I've just caught up on your conversation with Boyd and Terry so please assume that anything I put in here now will be a supplement. Eg. if I don't explicitly disagree with something they've posted please assume I agree with them. And I mostly agree with them.

As you see above, I disagree about the ability to use Google Maps offline on an Android device. It's just not easy or obvious.

Regarding the ability to have multiple stops in a route:

1. Google Maps allows it. It's moderately easy once you figure it out. It allows a fairly limited number of intermediate points; around 12 or so.

2. Here WeGo/Bing Maps does not have this capability.

3. ALK CoPilot has the capability. CoPilot is almost exactly a clone of standalone navigation devices. Because of that the original user interface really sucked on the Android phone. But they've made huge changes to the interface over the past couple of years. It's hardly perfect but it's much more usable now.

Regarding Garmin's PC stuff, I've been using Garmin's Basecamp since it was first released some years ago. I still hate the user interface. I have to use it occasionally because Garmin's even older, pre-Basecamp planning app doesn't have a few functions that Basecamp does.

I still use Mapsource for any offline planning I want to do. However, the current version of Garmin's maps require a conversion in order to use them in Mapsource. I can do that but I don't recommend it to anyone that might have other easier options.

Regarding the choice of "display", eg. a dedicated navigation device versus a Windows or Android tablet, there are some tradeoffs you need to take a look at. None of us have identical visual capabilities so we need to evaluate based on our own capabilities and preference.

1. Windows apps and some Android apps display stuff with a very "pastel-ish" low contrast look. This makes roads and other features like POIs very difficult to see unless you have the vision of an eagle. Most do not have any serious ability to change this.

2. Standalone navigation devices are designed to be used in a huge range of lighting conditions from dark night to very bright summer sunlight. They usually have a selection of type sizes. They typically have a number of themes to choose from that give you a choice of colour schemes and contrast levels. And they often have the ability to select "detail" levels, eg. how much stuff is displayed on the screen at different zoom levels.Also, as GoneNomad pointed out in our discussion, the POIs and some other features are oversize, almost comic-ish, which makes them easy to see and identify.

The app that Terry was using on that Windows tablet is still available, just not from Garmin.

If you want to give Basecamp a good workout there are free maps you can use that are quite easy to get and, in my part of the world, as accurate as anything else I've used. I've tried some different ones and I find Open Map Chest the simplest to download and use.

https://www.openmapchest.org/

If you just want to do some evaluation and testing of Basecamp and the maps, just holler in here and I'll be happy to post some tips that should help.

...ken...
tcassidy
Sorry, I was just commenting on mounting options. I don't do Android or Apple.

Terry
GoneNomad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken in Regina
...
Regarding the ability to have multiple stops in a route:
1. Google Maps allows it. It's moderately easy once you figure it out. It allows a fairly limited number of intermediate points; around 12 or so.
2. Here WeGo/Bing Maps does not have this capability.
3. ALK CoPilot has the capability.
OH, Ken!!

The Here WeGo app does not allow multiple stops, but the Android Here WeGo app isn't related to Bing either.
Bing uses Here's maps (not the other way around).
The "Bing Maps" website sure does allow multiple stops, as does the Here website.
Of course, neither website can provide turn-by-turn navigation, and the Here website can only make places (i.e.: destinations, not routes) available to their mobile app counterparts.

Since Ron is looking for an Android tablet, the Win10 Maps app isn't an option.

Stand by... I'm going to make a quick chart of the mainstream mapping/nav apps available for Android.

=======================================================

PS: Just temporarily posting this here because I keep getting this message when trying to send a PM:
"This forum requires that you wait 120 seconds between sending private messages. Please try again in 13613 seconds."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken in Regina
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNomad
Do you have to physically connect the PND via USB to get a basecamp-planned route into it? Or if PND has wi-fi, does that work for adding routes & POIs in addition to map updates?
I don't have any with wifi so I'm afraid I can't answer that. Sorry.

...ken...
From some fairly recent posts I've found, even the newest Garmin PNDs that have WiFi (for map updates) cannot accept basecamp routes via WiFi, and users aren't real happy about having to connect a USB cable to a WiFi device in 2018.

Also, it looks like Basecamp itself may be living on borrowed time. It's Garmin's recent track record on kind of thing that makes me very leery of buying into the garmin 'ecosystem' at this late stage. Also, I seem to recall from past experimentation that Basecamp has a lot of features and also has quite a learning curve (so did S&T, but I'm used to that, not Basecamp).



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