Laptop GPS World

videonerd · #1 October 30th, 2008, 04:13 AM

The provincial government in Ontario, Canada has proposed a bill (Bill 118) that will ban all electronic devices with displays except dedicated GPSs from driver-viewing.

Have a read:
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bil...en&BillID=2099

Quote:

78. (1) No person shall drive on a highway a motor vehicle that is equipped with, carries, contains or has attached to it a television, computer or other device with a display screen if the display screen is visible to the driver.

There are a few exclusions for GPS, vehicle tracking and collision-avoidance systems, but otherwise everything can be lumped into "other device."

"other device" possibly means scanners, two-way radios and installed laptops might become illegal! I can see some BIG problems with commercial vehicles and truckers.

Marvin Hlavac · #2 October 30th, 2008, 11:22 AM

videonerd, that would indeed be very bad law. Professional drivers, or people who spend a lot of time behind the wheel, may find a small dedicated GPS device not sufficient for their purpose. That is why companies like Microsoft, DeLorme, ALK, etc, sell mapping software for laptop computers. That is also why companies like RAM Mount manufacture vehicle mounts for laptops and tablet PCs. Should all these products be now prohibited from being sold in Ontario, the largest (by population) of Canadian provinces? Is it safer for drivers to hold a map book in one hand while driving, instead of keeping both hands on the steering wheel, and following the voice direction prompts of the mapping software installed on their laptop PC?

Quote:

The petition

Stop the passing of bill 118 that will make almost all electronic devices in automobiles in Ontario Illegal.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Kill118/

Signing the petition may or may not help. But why not give it a try.

Pass the link to your friends and other websites.

RAM_Mount_Expert · #3 October 30th, 2008, 12:14 PM

Marvin,
Great point! this is why RAM Mounts and other mounting systems are such a great thing. They are quickly becoming a necessity and less of an accessory. The majority of people who use electronics in their vehicles are professionals who depend on their technology to save time and eventually cut down on their bottom line. Maybe we should take a poll, if that is possible. I would like to know the difference between people who use electronics in their vehicle as a tool, opposed to those who use them for entertainment. Thoughts? Opinions?

Gordon Kerr · #4 October 30th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Naturally the Law Enforcement, Fire and Emergency servces would be exempt?

Interesting aside - I read somewhere in threads that a person charged w/ speeding successfully defended himself by producing his GPS info including his speed at the position of the alleged infraction, and the case was dismissed.

Would this law infringe on the charter of rights by depriving me of the possibility to defend myself in such a case?
I bring this up because I find a 5 km/hr difference in my speedometer and my GPS speed. GPS speed is the lower reading. Both speeds are shown as a dial rather than
LED readouts.

Does anyone find this discrepancy in their vehicles?

When I go out into the backwoods I could easily get lost if it were not for my GPS
(albeit on a laptop ). Should I crash somewhere I can be traced on the GPS or does search and rescue want to spend thousands of dollars trying to find me and my kids
with grid searches?

Personally, I find it scary and downright dangerous to manipulate it while moving, and ALWAYS stop to adjust/tune it. Glances like looking at your speedometer are easy.

And away we go!

toyfountain · #5 October 30th, 2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

(a) a global positioning system navigation device that has no other function than to deliver a global positioning system for navigation;

I think this bans about 50% or more of the GPS units on the market too. Some can play MP3's, view jpg images and connect to a phone by bluetooth. Surely these are other functions than delivering gps navigation and in the true letter of the law they will be illegal too. They can be viewed as smaller limited computers.

RAM_Mount_Expert · #6 October 30th, 2008, 04:39 PM

I think it might come down to someone choosing to drive responsibly. you can either speed, or drive the speed limit. You can use your mobile electronics as they are intended, or ignore disclaimers and watch DVD's as you travel down the road in excess of the speed limit without watching the road.

Respond Wayne · #7 October 30th, 2008, 07:10 PM

This is from the Blue Line Forum...

Quote:

The media is freaking out over nothing.

The actual text is at the bottom of this message.

The "meat and potatoes" is this part:

(2) No person shall use a cellular phone, car phone, pager, personal
data assistant, portable computer, fax machine or other equipment
prescribed by the regulations while driving a motor vehicle on a highway
located,

(a) in a community safety zone designated under section 214.1;

(b) within 200 metres of the scene of a motor vehicle accident or
apparent motor vehicle accident;

(c) within 100 metres of a school crossing marked as such; or

(d) in any other area prescribed by the regulations.

So in English - as long as you aren't in a Community Safety Zone, within
200m of an MVC, or within 100m of a school crossing, you're good to go.
Subsection (d) DOES allow them to add further areas, but as of right
now, they only have 3.

Talk about all spark and no flame, eh?

Bill 73 2008

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act to prohibit the use of phones
and other equipment while a person is driving on certain parts of a highway

Note: This Act amends the Highway Traffic Act. For the legislative
history of the Act, see the Table of Consolidated Public Statutes -
Detailed Legislative History on http://www.e-Laws.gov.on.ca.

Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative
Assembly of the Province of Ontario, enacts as follows:

1. Section 32 of the Highway Traffic Act is amended by adding the
following subsection:

Driving examinations

(14.1) The practical and written driving examinations mentioned in
clause (14) (e) shall include an examination of the applicant's or
holder's knowledge of section 78.1 and the regulations relating to it.

2. The Act is amended by adding the following section:

Cellular phones and other equipment

78.1 (1) In this section,

"hands-free feature" means a feature that enables a person to fully
operate a cellular phone, car phone, pager, personal data assistant,
portable computer, fax machine or other equipment prescribed by the
regulations without any manual manipulation and includes a voice
activated or speaker system; ("commandes mains-libres")

"novice driver" means a novice driver as defined in the regulations made
under section 57.1; ("conducteur débutant")

"unlawful act" includes, but is not limited to, careless or impaired
driving. ("acte illicite")

Prohibition

(2) No person shall use a cellular phone, car phone, pager, personal
data assistant, portable computer, fax machine or other equipment
prescribed by the regulations while driving a motor vehicle on a highway
located,

(a) in a community safety zone designated under section 214.1;

(b) within 200 metres of the scene of a motor vehicle accident or
apparent motor vehicle accident;

(c) within 100 metres of a school crossing marked as such; or

(d) in any other area prescribed by the regulations.

Exceptions

(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to,

(a) a person who is not a novice driver while the person is driving a
fire department vehicle, an ambulance or a public vehicle;

(b) a police officer who is not a novice driver while the person is
driving a motor vehicle while in the lawful performance of the person's
duties as a police officer; or

(c) a person prescribed by the regulations who uses equipment prescribed
by the regulations in circumstances prescribed by the regulations.

Same

(4) Nothing in subsection (2) prevents a person who is not a novice
driver from,

(a) using a cellular phone or car phone to report an emergency, a
traffic accident, an unlawful act or unsafe road conditions to the
appropriate authorities; or

(b) using equipment listed in that subsection, if the person uses a
hands-free feature to operate the equipment and does not use a listening
device that covers or provides sound to both ears.

Report on accident

(5) If an investigation by the Registrar of a motor vehicle accident
under clause 205 (1) (b) or a record kept under subclause 205 (1) (c)
(i) suggests the possibility that the use of a cellular phone, car
phone, pager, personal data assistant, portable computer, fax machine or
other equipment prescribed by the regulations contributed to causing the
accident, the Registrar shall mention that possibility in the report to
the Minister under clause 205 (1) (e).

Regulations

(6) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations prescribing
anything that is described in subsection (2), (3) or (5) as being
prescribed by the regulations.

Legislative review

(7) A committee of the Legislative Assembly shall,

(a) no earlier than two years and no later than three years after this
section comes into force, begin a comprehensive review of this section,
the regulations made under it and the operation in practice of this
section and those regulations; and

(b) within one year after beginning that review, make recommendations to
the Assembly concerning amendments to this section and the regulations
made under it.

Commencement

3 . This Act comes into force on the day it receives Royal Assent.

Short title

4. The short title of this Act is the Highway Traffic Amendment Act
(Cellular Phones), 2008 .

EXPLANATORY NOTE

The Bill amends the Highway Traffic Act to prohibit the use of a
cellular phone, car phone, pager, personal data assistant, portable
computer, fax machine or other equipment prescribed by the regulations
made under the Act while a person is driving a motor vehicle in an area
prescribed by the regulations made under the Act, including a community
safety zone, within 200 metres of the scene of a motor vehicle accident
or apparent motor vehicle accident or within 100 metres of a school
crossing. There are exceptions for cases like emergencies, cases where a
driver who is not a novice driver as defined in the regulation on
drivers' licences uses the equipment entirely through a hands-free
feature and other cases prescribed by the regulations made under the Act.

The Registrar is required to report cases where the use of a cellular
phone, car phone, pager, personal data assistant, portable computer, fax
machine or other equipment prescribed by the regulations made under the
Act may have contributed to causing a motor vehicle accident.

Drivers' licence examinations are required to include a portion testing
the applicant's knowledge of the amendments made by the Bill.

Marvin Hlavac · #8 October 30th, 2008, 07:34 PM

Wayne, it's good to see you respond to this.

...but how can we interpret the following:

Quote:

Quoted from: http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bil...en&BillID=2099

Display screen visible to driver prohibited

78. (1) No person shall drive on a highway a motor vehicle that is equipped with, carries, contains or has attached to it a television, computer or other device with a display screen if the display screen is visible to the driver.

Exceptions

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of,

(a) a global positioning system navigation device that has no other function than to deliver a global positioning system for navigation;

Can we have a laptop in a vehicle at all? If it is used for GPS navigation only? If we don't operate the keyboard/mouse/touch-pad/touch-screen while driving?

Respond Wayne · #9 October 30th, 2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

...if the display screen is visible to the driver

I can close the screen on my laptop, it only opens up when I am sitting still...

Marvin Hlavac · #10 October 30th, 2008, 07:42 PM

I know what you are saying, Wayne, but I would prefer not to have this prohibitive Bill 118 pass so I know I'm not doing anything illegal, and so I don't have to be creative when talking to a police officer

.

Ken in Regina · #11 October 31st, 2008, 01:00 AM

Sounds like a lot of worry over not very much. The sad part of it is that it wouldn't be necessary at all if people weren't so damn careless, self-centred and inconsiderate.

If a truck driver wants to use their laptop and hedge their bets on the safe side, don't load any music and video files on the hard drive of the laptop. Keep them on DVDs or thumb drives or memory cards or a portable USB hard drive. That way you have them to load when you're parked but they aren't on the laptop when you are driving and you can legitimately state that it's being used as a dedicated GPS device.

...ken...

videonerd · #12 October 31st, 2008, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Kerr

When I go out into the backwoods I could easily get lost if it were not for my GPS
(albeit on a laptop ). Should I crash somewhere I can be traced on the GPS or does search and rescue want to spend thousands of dollars trying to find me and my kids
with grid searches?

I have a Personal Locator Beacon. I bought it for hiking, and now Transport Canada is mandating that all Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs for planes) that used to only transmit a warble on 121.5 be upgraded to 406MHz digital.

My PLB (Terrafix) transmits on 121.5MHz and 406MHz. the 406MHz signal has an encoded ID that, with my contact info on a search and rescue (SAR) database, they immediately know who is in distress. The Terrafix also has a GPS receiver built in, so when it grabs the coordinates, it transmits that on 406MHz as well. Plus a 121.5MHz signal for old-school triangulation.

Most people will balk at the $600, but if you're an outdoor enthusiast and get lost hiking or boating or crashed in a remote location vehicle or aircraft with life-threatening injuries....

videonerd · #13 October 31st, 2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin Hlavac

I know what you are saying, Wayne, but I would prefer not to have this prohibitive Bill 118 pass so I know I'm not doing anything illegal, and so I don't have to be creative when talking to a police officer

.

Everyone in Ontario needs to write a letter to their MPP!

... and everyone coming INTO Ontario needs to know about this law, too because it affects them!!

flannigan · #14 November 1st, 2008, 11:08 AM

Marvin:

Marvin: I probably don't have the right to comment on this, since I'm not a Canadian citizen, but I have spent over 25 years in Ontario fishing.
When I read the "Exceptions"
(Exceptions)
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of,
(a) a global positioning system navigation device that has no other function than to deliver a global positioning system for navigation;

I wondered if this could mean a GPS like a Nuvi 880, and many others, are devices that "do have other functions" than to deliver a global positioning system for navigation since they have bluetooth, fm radio, weather, traffic, music etc. functions ?

Could this be a serious technical flaw in the bill ?

Regards,

Mike Flannigan

Marvin Hlavac · #15 November 1st, 2008, 12:15 PM

Mike, anyone has the right (and is most welcome) to comment

, and yes, you are absolutely correct. The individual who wrote the proposed bill was obviously not familiar with the technology s/he was writing about. I suspect we would have a very hard time finding a one-purpose device of this type on the market today. No GPS is just a GPS. No phone is just a phone. Cell phones are also cameras, calendars, calculators, etc.

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